Mopartist

This would never have gotton so involved and drawn out if I could HEAR well enough to have a full phone conversation. I have 40% hearing loss and my end of the conversation would sound something like " Huh? What was that? Did you say stroke; or that I'm a joke? Huh? what?.....etc." I do ALL of my ordering of aftermarket parts on the internet; because that way I don't misunderstand what is being said and I have information in writing. I've never REALLY felt handicapped until trying to get to the bottom line of this process. I can hear partially; but it helps to be face to face so i can kinda read lips. I've just gotton used to it, and i do avoid using my cell phone (as it is worse than a hard line) Like I said; I don't consider myself handicapped; and I hate the feeling of a hearing aid (which really didn't help much anyway.) In a casual conversation I can nod and agree, and go "yeah.....uhhh huh.....OK' and I don't have a clue until someone says "Did you hear me?"; but it's easier than having people constantly repeat themselves until I get an idea of what they are saying. One good thing to come out of it is I am starting to understand shock technology a bit. So there's THAT.

HOWEVER...........The conversation between Flatbed and Lenny revealed that an 8.5 stroke shock is 2.5 inches too long for the front mounts. I wanna purchase some too; but I'm afraid that they won't fit. I sent a PM to Quig and asked for the specs on the shocks he tested. I also sent an inquiry to MakinTrax suspensions. Haven't heard back yet. Getting info through e-mail is like pulling teeth. But I want it on paper.

If both places have that kind of scenery; and are accessable by motorhome; I'm on the same page. I only saw the videos' Jeff posted on YouTube, and i assume they were of the Temple Mountain; Goblin Valley area. It looked awesome to me! Dry camp; or developed campground; makes no difference to me. (That is if things turn out the way I plan)

Thanks Jeff; I got them to work. I was just wondering if you and Lenny had decided where we would all congregate for the Jamboree.

So if I'm understanding right. The AFCO shocks are 2.0 and 8.5 inch stroke, and dual rate springs for around $1500 ?

WOW! I sure appreciate you guys checking out these places and having video's for us to watch. The UTube vids were awesome! Looking on Google Earth for Temple mountain shows it's 30 miles north of Hanksville? I just want to make sure that the roads are motorhome friendly. The area looks absolutely breathtaking! If the Utube vids are Temple Mountain; I vote for that place! Incredible! I haven't been able to make the GPS files work on Google Earth; but it's pretty clearly marked just doing a G E search.

Thanks MTS

This is where I have a concern. Wouldn't the nylon strap eventually stretch; thus continually needing adjustment? (Again, I'm nit familiar with race buggies and the "norm" so pardon my ignorance)

As I am reading it; Flatbed says that an 8.5 shock was 2.5 inches too long for the stock locations. So if I gain 2.5 inches in height and use the stock bottom locations, it should fit. I'm thinking that instead of moving the crossbar; I will weld 2"X3"X 12" square tubing in the span and support from the center frame beneath it with uprights. You guys are gonna turn me into a fabrication expert yet!

How much more "height" did you have to gain with the new upper mount locations over stock height for the shocks to fit?

So Rick; tell me about the Bilstiens. Are they 8.5; dual springs;adjustable; etc? The pic on your website shows a piggyback shock with dual rate springs. Thats for the T2 right? I know Bilstien builds a really good shock; but there seems to be some discrepency with what the website shows. I just want to make sure these are not for sand spiders or other Joyner vehicles being that the Trooper is so heavy.

Cool; I will probably be ready in a week or so, so I'll wait to see what Larry thinks about them. Thanks for the info

Hey Rick; do those Afco shocks include duel rate springs for $1425 ?

Hmmm..... I wonder if she would like using a duel action sander on our Mini project?

So I found this old thread you are referring to where Flatbed was having a discussion with you and Lenny. Good stuff! I think I'm starting to have a grasp (maybe a little) of how this all works. So it seems that a Fox 2.0 with 8.5 travel will work on the rear suspension with an 8 inch 300# tender over a 10 inch 600# primary. Now if I DO NOT lower my rear diff; will I need to relocate the bottom mounts even farther back? (Flatbed says he moved his 3/4 of an inch rearward.) The same shock on the front will require new top mount locations because the shock is 2.5 inches too long. Hmmmm.....might not be too bad to fab; but how can we minimize the fabrication? I'd be a bit uncomfortable messing with the core frame, but I'll have to take a closer study of what I have and see if a different shock tower can be acheived. So far it doesn't freak me out too bad; and I'm not too much against doing a hood cutout for the towers; but engineering problems with shock angles , I have no idea of the consequences. I'd like to see some pics of the tower fabrication. I had asked Lenny awhile back, but he had been injured and probably forgot. Pics are worth a thousand words; and with MY comprehension, they're worth a billion words.

Uhhhhhhh....sorry about that little .....(grits teeth) I'm just havin a crappy day I guess. I don't think I've ever had so much trouble understanding a simple thing like suspensions. Usually stuff like this comes easily to me; but for some reason I'm just not grasping it. I feel really stupid. I know you guys have gone way out of your way to explain things, but for some reason I just blank out in having that "Aha" moment. I have 2 other vehicle projects going and my mind is divided I guess. It's not an unwillingness to learn; it's just that I'm stretched too thin I guess. Shocks are EXTREMELY expensive; and I want to get it right, and not waste money and time experementing till I get it right. On the other hand....speaking of hands.....I'm selling an Austin Mini motor and cut the livin crap out of my hand on the metal strapping that holds it to the pallet. I'm hoping to use my cherry picker to get it into my pickup bed so I can deliver on Saturday to Portland. Taking a HUGE loss on this motor. Cost me 7K to have it built, and I'm dumping it for 4K. Just feelin kinda dumb I guess and I don't like the insinuation that I am. Oh well; I can't know EVERYTHING. Again; sorry for the outburst.

Everything is primed, sealed, and ready to go with Bada Bling Silver flake water base next week. I haven't used water color auto paint before, but it should be interesting. I can do the airbrushing in the house!

I don't quite get why we are arguing about this. And YES; I have contacted Silverbullet, FOA (twice), and ToBeFast by e-mail. (with no responce from any of them) I have already stated that I am partially hearing impaired (here on this board AND to the individual companies); thats why I e-mail. Plus when you get old; you forget details easily. A phone call (if I COULD hear it well) has a high risk of me not remembering the details, or misunderstanding what I'm being told. (Ask any of the old timers here how that works) If things are gonna get snippy; lets just drop the whole thing, and I'll end up buying Kings. No biggy; I just thought I could be cheap as usual; and save a grand. I'd rather get along with the members here so that when I come to the Jamboree I won't be an ostracized dinosaur. That would kinda take the fun out of it; ya think? And how would I explain to my wife why we can't hang out with the cool kids? I'll tell you one thing; I may end up having the best LOOKING Trooper you've ever seen. Art and painting I understand;....... suspensions.....not so much. Now, I know you read my post about my 8.5" shocks fitting after I grinded down the swing arm slightly, and since you haven't done that yet, I assume you deemed that unacceptable. I'm not quite sure what you are getting at. I haven't even started on the shock project yet. I'm still doing bodywork. Thats why I am looking for information, so that when I am ready; i somewhat know what I'm talking about.

Sorry if I'm not as articulate as i need to be on this. My intention was not to have you modified guys repeat yourselves. I've been over every word written about how your "MODIFIED" suspensions work and how much fabrication was required to pull it off. Thats why I stated that only the modified guys were willing to share their info. 2 scoops made the point that "King Shocks" were the only true "bolt on" sets available. That being said; there have been many people who use the King Shock setup on their Troopers, and I'm trying to get the information that comes from owning King Shocks so that a comparable set of Fox, FOA, Bilstien, Walker Evans, Afco, or any other aftermarket shock can also be set up without spending the outrageous price of $2600. (Well, maybe Walker Evans would be that expensive) You guys went the "modification route" .....I'm looking for simpler stock route which does not have 14 inches of travel; but the stock 10-12 inch travel for about a grand less. I'm not that much in to rock crawling and open desert racing. I don't need to spend so much on perfect handling. I'd be happy with keeping up with a long travel Razor. I can weld; but it doesn't mean that I want to reconfigure and reengineer my suspension. I don't have that kind of experience. I think it's awesome that some of you have that want and need to make it MUCH better. I'm just not there. I guess my priorities are just different. I want my Trooper to ride like this: Whoops; not that.....THIS .............

I'd like to add as well; how do you know at what angle the CV pulls loose from the socket and binds up? Yeah; you might have alot of travel; but if the axle pulls out while your in the air (Not likely with the obese weight of the Trooper); seems like there should have been a more precise plan for shock travel (I know; limiting straps....which also seem like a mickey mouse way of doing things) These things are what keep me from the costly practice of experimenting with suspensions (which I have zero experience with). One wrong move; and I start draining the account to pay for mistakes. I'd rather already be an expert at it if I'm going to monkey with it. Learning by mistakes can be really costly in this case.

Well; I don't want you to think I'm just being lazy. Alot of guys take a hobby like off roading and go to the limits. (Just like muscle car guys and hot rodders) I however; just want to buy a set of shocks to make the ride much better without paying over $1000 more for the "secret information". I'm spending more time on the body and paint. I used to be in to hot rodding (68 Roadrunner, 65 Dart 383) and I spent more time under the car than in it.; but now that I'm closer to retirement age; I care more about soft rides, custom cars, motorhomes, and the kind of things that don't put me flat on my back unable to stand upright. With the Chiropractor every week; the ice pack on the lumbar every night; believe me; I won't be jumping tabletops like in the old days on dirt bikes; I just wanna bolt on some shocks and cruise. But I don't get why some of the guys who bought the King Shock secret can't just say it....for free Almost every aftermarket shock builder has done a Trooper by now. You would think they would market shock sets like King; and undercut the King price. After all; thats the way they market shock and long travel suspensions for Rhino, Razor, and Can Am buggies.

Tell me where to measure and I'll get that for you. Its 1/2 inch clearance from the top surface of the axle to where it would meet with the bottom side of the top trailing arm bar.

There has been many discussions on aftermarket shocks; and for the most part; the guys who have really gone into modifying and fabrication on their Troopers are the only ones giving specs. But I'm wondering (and I'm sure many others are too) What specs do we use for replacing our stiff old squeeky nitrogen charged junk stock shocks with modern high tech "mushy" shocks that enables us to drink a cup of coffee while going down a bumpy trail at 40 mph. (Not literally of coarse) Whether ordering King Shocks, or Fox, or FOA, or Rancho, or Bilstien, etc. ; we've discussed valving, travel, preload, rebound, dual spring rates, limiting straps, etc, etc. But it doesn't mean we all understand the technology of shocks. I know there are many options, but there must be a base line. For instance: I don't think if we have the right shocks, we should have to use limiting straps, or lower the diff, or modify the shock mounts. Can someone just say "Here's what I have. It works great on a "stock" Trooper. Order aftermarkets using this information." Shocks are way too expensive to get a number wrong in ordering. Thanks in advance guys

I agree; it's a crime what our government is doing. I think most off road enthusiasts actually really do care about open land. We don't want it to become "silt" either. I'm amazed that the state of Utah is so gracious with the natural landscape in letting people be "among" it's natural beauty. From where I live in Bend, Oregon all the way to the state pf Idaho is open land, and it's crazy to cut it all off to off roaders. I recently have started to get an interest in snowmobiles, and the government is also trying to cut off wilderness areas to snowmobiles! What are they gonna ruin; snow? It makes no sense! OK; my blood pressure is climbing again. I better back off.