power steering

[jamesrulz]

I would say that 40lbs would be at the max pull but I know that when i came out of a creek bed last spring all locked up with 30inch mud lights I had to put out. I am sure that the set up you have is good I will not be running any tracks but maybe some BFG MT's in the future but they shouldnt be harder to turn than the mud lights are. Did you make a electic steering because of the hp loss of hydraulic or the easyer install?

[rocmoc]

I can't imagine the tracks would require anymore power to turn than my 31X10.50X15 tire setup I have on my trooper now. With the front lockers engaged It nearly takes a manbeast to hang on to the thing in rocks or uneven surfaces. AND Lenny I believe has the same tire setup. Bigger the tire & rim setup, the more power/torque required. Lenny has be dealing with this from day ONE!

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[Kinarfi]

I would say that 40lbs would be at the max pull but I know that when i came out of a creek bed last spring all locked up with 30inch mud lights I had to put out. I am sure that the set up you have is good I will not be running any tracks but maybe some BFG MT's in the future but they shouldnt be harder to turn than the mud lights are. Did you make a electic steering because of the hp loss of hydraulic or the easyer install?

I went with electrical because it's what I know and I had toyed with the motor control on a different project earlier and hadn't got it all to come together, so this project was interesting and practical. My first design was 2 relays and a switch to energize one or the other and it worked relatively well. The latest design was extremely interesting and fun and intriguing and challenging and only took a little over a half year to develop. (I'm Very Proud Of It) It's always smart to keep your thumb out of the center of the steering wheel in case something grabs a wheel, with this system, I feel safe with my thumbs on the inside.

It's also so much easier than hydraulics, the alternator is already there, so no pump to figure out how to mount and the hose is just #10 wire. We'll get some photos up shortly.

Kinarfi

[Guest Lenny]

I would say that 40lbs would be at the max pull but I know that when i came out of a creek bed last spring all locked up with 30inch mud lights I had to put out. I am sure that the set up you have is good I will not be running any tracks but maybe some BFG MT's in the future but they shouldnt be harder to turn than the mud lights are. Did you make a electic steering because of the hp loss of hydraulic or the easyer install?

I beleive that electric will give much finer control at speed. As an example, if you turn on the steering wheel with 1 pound of force, you won't get any assist nor do you need it at that point. As you increase the force on the steering wheel, the electric begins to enguage but starts out at say 1 volt, just a little assist. So, if you only need a little assist, that is all you get. If you need more, turn a little harder but that only goes up to a ending predetermined force on the steering wheel after which the power assist provides all the assist necessary beyond that point. This is nice because when going down the road at 60MPH, there is a neutral spot where there is no assist so it's like no power steering unless you turn to at least the lower pre-determined force amount required on the steering wheel, only then does the assist begin to enguage. Then it's a gradual assist. When in that center neutral or zone as kinarfi refers to it, the dead zone, the electronics do something real tricky. The controller actually uses the steering motor to counter act any turning force that developes due to the tires colliding with objects. In other words, if your going through a field of say 6" diameter rocks, you feel little of it as the steering wheel stays relatively steady and doesn't ratchet back and forth. You do still feel a little tug on the steerring wheel which provides that all important feel of the road sinsation. Kinarfi has developed a controller that does some things that hydraulic can't, he's pretty cleaver especially when it comes to electronics.

Lenny

[fasted61]

I can't imagine the tracks would require anymore power to turn than my 31X10.50X15 tire setup I have on my trooper now. With the front lockers engaged It nearly takes a manbeast to hang on to the thing in rocks or uneven surfaces. AND Lenny I believe has the same tire setup. Bigger the tire & rim setup, the more power/torque required. Lenny has be dealing with this from day ONE!

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

I can assure you that the tracks will require alot more power than turning the 31" tire and wheel combo. You have to realize these things weigh 85 lbs and are not round they don't roll like a tire and not only that but when you are in 2 feet of heavy snow you have all of the side resistance of that snow when you try to turn. The machine doesn't just float on top it sinks in a certain amount. Think of trying to steer your tires in deep wet cement. Under extreme conditions I have stalled the hydraulics. but that has only happened a time or two. This is why I question whether the electric assit would be enough, if it is that would be great. I think that for most it is the way to go.

[rocmoc]

You're the expert on tracks & snow. We banned the stuff from my life years ago so don't have any current knowledge of the white stuff. Just something about the temp dropping below 70 doesn't appeal to me, LOL! All kidding aside to turn my beast while front lockers are engaged under load is easily 40 lbs of torque. That is why I am looking at power steering. Under normal driving conditions, 2 wd with no lockers, it isn't a problem. But engage those darn lockers in the front and it becomes a beast. I'm sure you will find what works best for you.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[Guest Lenny]

You're the expert on tracks & snow. We banned the stuff from my life years ago so don't have any current knowledge of the white stuff. Just something about the temp dropping below 70 doesn't appeal to me, LOL! All kidding aside to turn my beast while front lockers are engaged under load is easily 40 lbs of torque. That is why I am looking at power steering. Under normal driving conditions, 2 wd with no lockers, it isn't a problem. But engage those darn lockers in the front and it becomes a beast. I'm sure you will find what works best for you.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

When I'm saying 40 pounds, that is one hand pushing up with 40 pounds and the other pulling down with 40 pounds or a total of 80 poinds at say 6" out from the center of the steering wheel. Actually we will acheive nearly twice that. I just like a nice safty factor. 4 wheel at full lock should be a breese.

Lenny

[Kinarfi]

Fasted61, does your system still use the stock steering rack? Where is the turn force applied, if stock rack, how has it stood up to the power of you hydraulics. Can you take a photo or two?

Thank You,

Kinarfi

[fasted61]

Fasted61, does your system still use the stock steering rack? Where is the turn force applied, if stock rack, how has it stood up to the power of you hydraulics. Can you take a photo or two?

Thank You,

Kinarfi

Yes I am running the stock rack with Lenny's upgrade.

Ed

[jamesrulz]

hey guys any updates on your power steering setup? X mas is coming and I want to surprise the Joynasaurus rex with power steering LOL. If you get some pics i would love to see them.

[Kinarfi]

Got a request for anyone able to drive their Trooper, It's too cold for me, or I may just jack up the rear end and spin the wheels if no one can help.

If you have a digital volt meter that will measure frequency, hook it to you speedo and report back what the frequency is at what speed. I'm considering another variation for the power steering control, one that would drop out the controls above a predetermined speed, leaving the motor and gears to act as a steering dampener. Should be getting some of the final parts needed in tomorrow to order printed circuit boards. It's looking real good, I'm sure you'll like it.

Thanks in advance,

Kinarfi

[plumber]

Kinarfi just seen the pic of the power steering unit in trooper folk it looks nice heavy duty looks like you are getting closer to being done let me know when you have them ready

[silverbullet]

Silverbullt.

The uni-steer is sealed.But is not a fish.It should be ok.It will take the 30 inch tires ok.All the race sidexside are starting to use it.Because it holds up.

Silverbullet

The elect power steering mounts high near the fire wall.It works great with 30" tires & Lockers.We have sold over 21 Kits and no proublums.We have loged over 200 miles on our trooper with 30" tires and had no proublums.We dont use it in the mud We have no mud hear in Yuma.But we due rock crauling all the time.We have fabracated all mounts for Trooper Renegade Vipers they are all bolt on system.Even a novice could install it in 2 - 3 hr.1year waranty on the unit and life time on the mounts.We sell the full line for every sidexside price varys.It also comes with a led self test every time you start .

[plumber]

It appears that our power steering kit will also fit the early Troopers with the front gas tank, Lenny & I have decided to include a Joyner-Trooper-T2-Steering-Looseness-Fix-KIT, mentioned earlier, to make this a better steering correction and upgrade kit. jamesrulz, unfortunately, the turn radius is limited by the outer CVs in the front, this issue was explored by myself and Lenny in the past. At this time, we have a tentative price of around $800.00. Photos will be added as soon as possible, about a week or so.

Kinarfi

Kinarfi is your power steering kit ready yet

[Kinarfi]

Kinarfi is your power steering kit ready yet

Hard to say, We have a jamboree in New Mexico this weekend and I'll have mine there for demos and comments. I'm using the same basic circuitry with a controller made for scooters which will tested also. I fear the liability issue will be the the biggest problem. How ever, I took mine down to St. George, Utah and had a good time with no problems, may need a tweak or two, but that's to be determined at the jamboree. I'll add more after the Jamboree.

Kinarfi

[jamesrulz]

My electra steer is working great so far. I have went for a couple rides so far and its flawless. I like hope it has good assist but gives you good feed back. Time will tell if it is the answer I drive in allot of wet conditions so we will see how it holds up in the long run.

[Kinarfi]

Power Steering unit report after New Mexico Jamboree

Mine worked very well, If had to report a problem, It would be that at the end of travel you still can manually turn the steering wheel another ~5 Degrees with out any assist. That's not the problem, the problem is coming out of that unassisted area of the turn, it tends to resist some, not bad but slightly noticeable. It provided the power and speed to handle any of the turns in any of the terrains I drove, was rock solid on the fast and straight, the stabilizing effect works great at keeping it going straight and if turned, continues to hold the turn but does return to straight slowly when in 4x4 and Lockers and prevented the bump steers that busts your thumb if you have it on the inside of the steering wheel, I felt completely comfortable with my hands wrapped all the way around the steering wheel, even in the roughest stuff.

Got to drive Lenny's unit for a while and liked it very much too. You have to understand that Lenny's is very modified and therefore not necessarily applicable to the stock Trooper. His uses the speed controller from scooter drive which only goes in one direction with reversing relays to get both directions. It seemed to work very well and the computer in it takes about 10 - 15 seconds to cycle up, but tells you if and what problems it is having. I think it may have some advantages to my design and I am considering getting another so I can make one designed around the Trooper and the motor we use for it which is much more power than the one on Lenny's, but Lenny's has a much lower gear ration.

I'm very happy with mine and when you consider that my plane crash left me with a 3rd degree shoulder separation on the Left and the Right shoulder has been replaced with an artificial joint and that I can drive all day and my butt is probably the sorest thing on me at the end of the day, I'd say I have really good unit.

Our worse fear is that if we sell one and the new owner screws something up, drives through a puddle or stream right next to the cliff and then drives over the cliff and dies, are we going to get blamed for the death and sued for all we have or will have.

Kinarfi

[Guest Lenny]

Power Steering unit report after New Mexico Jamboree

Mine worked very well, If had to report a problem, It would be that at the end of travel you still can manually turn the steering wheel another ~5 Degrees with out any assist. That's not the problem, the problem is coming out of that unassisted area of the turn, it tends to resist some, not bad but slightly noticeable. It provided the power and speed to handle any of the turns in any of the terrains I drove, was rock solid on the fast and straight, the stabilizing effect works great at keeping it going straight and if turned, continues to hold the turn but does return to straight slowly when in 4x4 and Lockers and prevented the bump steers that busts your thumb if you have it on the inside of the steering wheel, I felt completely comfortable with my hands wrapped all the way around the steering wheel, even in the roughest stuff.

Got to drive Lenny's unit for a while and liked it very much too. You have to understand that Lenny's is very modified and therefore not necessarily applicable to the stock Trooper. His uses the speed controller from scooter drive which only goes in one direction with reversing relays to get both directions. It seemed to work very well and the computer in it takes about 10 - 15 seconds to cycle up, but tells you if and what problems it is having. I think it may have some advantages to my design and I am considering getting another so I can make one designed around the Trooper and the motor we use for it which is much more power than the one on Lenny's, but Lenny's has a much lower gear ration.

I'm very happy with mine and when you consider that my plane crash left me with a 3rd degree shoulder separation on the Left and the Right shoulder has been replaced with an artificial joint and that I can drive all day and my butt is probably the sorest thing on me at the end of the day, I'd say I have really good unit.

Our worse fear is that if we sell one and the new owner screws something up, drives through a puddle or stream right next to the cliff and then drives over the cliff and dies, are we going to get blamed for the death and sued for all we have or will have.

Kinarfi

Mine has worked well. It has been reliable and consistant. Kinarfi made a program change to my controller on his computer and it made a nice improvemet to an already good feel. I'm going to change the setting he set to twice the change he made and will see how it feels. I think it is going to finish it up and it will be great. No dought, it sure is nice when in 4x4 lockout.

Lenny

[silverbullet]

Hi Silverbullet

Lenny It was nice to meet you at Joyner and talk to you.It was sad to see Joyner at the end but life goes on.You have so much experiecnce i wish i had 1/2 as much as you due.Well i would like to say thanks wish i had more time to talk to you.May be our paths will meet again.

[Guest Lenny]

Hi Silverbullet

Lenny It was nice to meet you at Joyner and talk to you.It was sad to see Joyner at the end but life goes on.You have so much experiecnce i wish i had 1/2 as much as you due.Well i would like to say thanks wish i had more time to talk to you.May be our paths will meet again.

Thanks Rick, enjoyed meeting you too. Unfortunately, I got called away by my wife and had to address something. We will get a chance to talk again.

Lenny