R-2 high rev

[Chalkstk]

Hi All,

Newbi here. I have a 08 Renegade R-2 800cc.. I have had a high rev problem on start up for well over a year. Brought it to Tempe last year and all they did was a battery change. Worked for awhile and then began again. They then sent me a MAS sensor and that worked, so it seemed for short while. Finally we realized the problem was an intermittant one and they were going send out a tech to scan components.

Then as you all know, they are out of business. And now I am stuck with a 12 grand "flower pot". I crank it up, starts fine, then revs to about 3800 rpm. Turn it on an off about 7 to 8 times and it finally will idle and run fine all that day by starting and stopping. After it sits for a day or two, the high rev begins again and I have to do the start/stop thing over and over.

I've called a bunch of dealers here in AZ, and none has a soloution, but say it could be this or that. And then to top it off, no one has parts. Has anybody here had this problem or knows someone who can help.?

Discouraged,

Chalkstk

[rocmoc]

Welcome. Hang in there. There are some knowledgeable people on here and someone may have some suggestions. Just don't give up!

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[Chalkstk]

Welcome. Hang in there. There are some knowledgeable people on here and someone may have some suggestions. Just don't give up!

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

Thx roc,

I thought about having the "Devil's Spawn" lettered on the cowl. LOL!

Chalkstk

[Kinarfi]

Welcome to the forum, Sorry about the PM, hope you forgive me. This does sound like an interesting problem and I'm sorry I can't help at this time.

Kinarfi

[Guest Lenny]

It does say in the manual that a defective carbon canister control valve can cauuse Idle control problems. Also check your IAC (idle air control). It could be sticking until it gets warmed up or loosened up some. It's on the throttle body. pull it off and look at it when you turn on the key and see if the center pin moves. If you check the manual it shows how to check it with a multimeter along with most of the other sensors. I suspose that if the engine RPM sensor were faulty, it could tell the computer that the engine needs more RPMs when it really doesn't. Check all the engine control sensor connectors. Go through them one by one, unplugging them and reinserting them. Preferrably get some di-electric greese from the auto parts store and apply it prior to reinserting. Work the plugs in and out a few times. Let me think, I'm just thinking out loud here. On mine, I found that my throttle cable was getting sticky and the spring wouldn't pull the butterfly valve shut all the way. I cleaned and lubercated it and added a second spring to assist the pull back. Also check your MAP sensor in the intake manifold along with the oxygen sensor in the exhaust manifold ( the first one primarily) if either one of these were defective they could cause a problem because they each can control the carburator IAC valve operation. Look for any disconnected air lines in the intake system or air leaks where the engine could be getting extra air that the MAP sensor isn't seeing. Thats all I can think of now so good luck. Hopefully others can add to this.

Lenny

[Chalkstk]

It does say in the manual that a defective carbon canister control valve can cauuse Idle control problems. Also check your IAC (idle air control). It could be sticking until it gets warmed up or loosened up some. It's on the throttle body. pull it off and look at it when you turn on the key and see if the center pin moves. If you check the manual it shows how to check it with a multimeter along with most of the other sensors. I suspose that if the engine RPM sensor were faulty, it could tell the computer that the engine needs more RPMs when it really doesn't. Check all the engine control sensor connectors. Go through them one by one, unplugging them and reinserting them. Preferrably get some di-electric greese from the auto parts store and apply it prior to reinserting. Work the plugs in and out a few times. Let me think, I'm just thinking out loud here. On mine, I found that my throttle cable was getting sticky and the spring wouldn't pull the butterfly valve shut all the way. I cleaned and lubercated it and added a second spring to assist the pull back. Also check your MAP sensor in the intake manifold along with the oxygen sensor in the exhaust manifold ( the first one primarily) if either one of these were defective they could cause a problem because they each can control the carburator IAC valve operation. Look for any disconnected air lines in the intake system or air leaks where the engine could be getting extra air that the MAP sensor isn't seeing. Thats all I can think of now so good luck. Hopefully others can add to this.

Lenny

Thx Lenny, though I don't know what each of the sensors looks like. Been too lazy to study the manual. But I guess it is time. What gets me the most is the intermittent problem. Once I get it to idle, it will start and stop all day long. But after sitting for day or two as I have said, it over revs on start up and scares the ****** out of me. I took out a sensor that had a little bullet point on it. It doesn't move without ignition. I cleaned and lubed it and nothing changed. My throttle cable seems fine and idle screw is all the way relieved. But I don't know about the butterfly?

But I will do that contact stuff with all plugs. Thx again

Chalkstk

[Chalkstk]

Thx Lenny, though I don't know what each of the sensors looks like. Been too lazy to study the manual. But I guess it is time. What gets me the most is the intermittent problem. Once I get it to idle, it will start and stop all day long. But after sitting for day or two as I have said, it over revs on start up and scares the ****** out of me. I took out a sensor that had a little bullet point on it. It doesn't move without ignition. I cleaned and lubed it and nothing changed. My throttle cable seems fine and idle screw is all the way relieved. But I don't know about the butterfly?

But I will do that contact stuff with all plugs. Thx again

Chalkstk

Hi again,

I tried shutting off kill swicth. Then back on before ignition. It has idled fine for a day. I assume the kill switch resets computer to default. If this continues to work, then part of my problem is fixed. So what is the real problem when I don't use kill switch?

Chalkstk

[brostar]

Yes you are resetting your computer. This makes me think it is an intermitting problem like a small short in your wire harness.

Look in your ECU Troubleshoot in your Renegade owners manual on page 139/140. The title is: Idle is too high(ECU needs self-study again)

The important thing here is take it to an Auto Sparky to fix I think, because as soon as he uses a Diagnostic Reader, he should know what's going on. More that likely it is stated in that section in your manual, otherwise I think it is a wire shorting the circuit somewhere.

Cheers Mike.

[Chalkstk]

Hi Mike,

Yes you are resetting your computer. This makes me think it is an intermitting problem like a small short in your wire harness.

Look in your ECU Troubleshoot in your Renegade owners manual on page 139/140. The title is: Idle is too high(ECU needs self-study again)

The important thing here is take it to an Auto Sparky to fix I think, because as soon as he uses a Diagnostic Reader, he should know what's going on. More that likely it is stated in that section in your manual, otherwise I think it is a wire shorting the circuit somewhere.

Cheers Mike.

I live in Quartzsite, AZ. There is no body here that has any knowledge about ATV/UTV's. The two nearest Joyner Dealers are Yuma, 100 mi south and used to be one in Havasu 90 mi north. But he does not even have a phone anymore. I do have a trailor, but to who should I go? Evry dealer I called online could not pinpoint, for they never had this problem on any of their rigs they have sold or serviced.

So here I sit broken hearted No offene, but having some knowledge of electrical wiring, a short is a short, not intermittent unless a lose connection that sometimes contacts and then when moved or disturbed, does not function. But I'm just sitting there cranking and stopping, and "wallah" on the sixth or more starts, it idles fine. That is until it sits for a day or two.

It seems it would be easier to troubleshoot if it simply would never idle?? But thx much for your input. Did you see my other thread on K & N for the 3 banger. Joyner never had a number to fit this airbox, but there must be one with those dimensions. If not these Chinamen engineers need some designing discernment imo. I know I can get a cone style. but probably need some ofset pvc elbow to offset so I can drop the bed. Again, no info???

I think I'll just cry in my winecooler today

Chalkstk

[Chalkstk]

Hello All,

This maybe a Rippley's "believe it or not" moment................................... I was perusing all the wiring to various sensors on the engine when I noticed a 22 ga blk wire running from the hour meter, I ordered with the R-2, and had Silverbullet Motor Sports do the install. As I followed where the wire hooked to, I cringed in unbelief

It was afixed to one of the spark plug wires and wrapped with blk electrical tape. And even the tape job was sloppy

As I was imagining the oaf in my mind's eye, with a 2x4 in my hand, I proceeded to snip the wire and cap off. I no longer have an hour meter, but so far the machine idles

Does anybody know where the other end of the hour meter wire truly gets hooked up to? I also got my snorkle and K &N installed. Looks great and runs fine. Thx for all the tips from everybody who replied. Nice to know friends indeed when in need

Frankie

[Guest Lenny]

Hello All,

This maybe a Rippley's "believe it or not" moment................................... I was perusing all the wiring to various sensors on the engine when I noticed a 22 ga blk wire running from the hour meter, I ordered with the R-2, and had Silverbullet Motor Sports do the install. As I followed where the wire hooked to, I cringed in unbelief

It was afixed to one of the spark plug wires and wrapped with blk electrical tape. And even the tape job was sloppy

As I was imagining the oaf in my mind's eye, with a 2x4 in my hand, I proceeded to snip the wire and cap off. I no longer have an hour meter, but so far the machine idles

Does anybody know where the other end of the hour meter wire truly gets hooked up to? I also got my snorkle and K &N installed. Looks great and runs fine. Thx for all the tips from everybody who replied. Nice to know friends indeed when in need

Frankie

That is interesting. It was probably not getting a good spark on that cylinder so when it was cold that cylinder didn't get a good burn. If it burned slow and all the way out the exhaust, it could leave the air fuel ratio reading rich. The burn out the exhaust would use up any oxygen left and the sensor would see a rich mixture and open the IAC reving the engine. Wow, hows that for a wild guess. Anybody have any other wild ideas? Unless you set around with the ignition on without running the engine, you should be able to hook the hour meter to the hot side of the ignition. That would be the yellow wire on the ignition side of the plug that connects the ignition switch to the wire harness. This wire turns to a dark blue on the other side of the plug. You can connect to either side of the plug. This lead is switched with the ignition. This is assuming that your hour meter runs on 12 volts. Hooking it to the ignition wire doesn't make sence to me unless it reads the pulses which it could do. I assume it wasn't wired to the ignition wire itself but just taped to the outside of the insulation cover.

Lenny

[Chalkstk]

That is interesting. It was probably not getting a good spark on that cylinder so when it was cold that cylinder didn't get a good burn. If it burned slow and all the way out the exhaust, it could leave the air fuel ratio reading rich. The burn out the exhaust would use up any oxygen left and the sensor would see a rich mixture and open the IAC reving the engine. Wow, hows that for a wild guess. Anybody have any other wild ideas? Unless you set around with the ignition on without running the engine, you should be able to hook the hour meter to the hot side of the ignition. That would be the yellow wire on the ignition side of the plug that connects the ignition switch to the wire harness. This wire turns to a dark blue on the other side of the plug. You can connect to either side of the plug. This lead is switched with the ignition. This is assuming that your hour meter runs on 12 volts. Hooking it to the ignition wire doesn't make sence to me unless it reads the pulses which it could do. I assume it wasn't wired to the ignition wire itself but just taped to the outside of the insulation cover.

Lenny

Thx Lenny. I'll pull the tape off to see whether they nicked the spark plug wire. I'm going out to start it now. If it idles, the fix is good. Wish me well....I'll let you know.

Frankie

PS if I ever get down to Yuma, I'm bringing that 2x4. This prob has gone on for a year and a half and even Joyner, Tempe could not find it.............Grrrrrrh!!!

[Kinarfi]

Here's the wiring plug for a Trooper, don't know it's the same as yours or not.

Taped to a spark plug wire? Doesn't make sense here either. To check you hour meter, Just hook it to 12 volts for 6 or 7 minutes and see it you get .1 hour change, but it was working before? right. I may need to be hooked to the tach signal if it works off a pulsed input. Do you have a name and model off of it. Hooking it to 12 volts could damage it, but probably not. Let us know if you have any other info about the meter, Name, model, how many wires, color of wires, etc.

Kinarfi

[Kinarfi]

Chalkstk, Thinking out loud here, but I may be that the wire was supposed to be taped to the plug wire to act as a capacitive pick up like a timing light pick up but not electrically connected. If they nicked the insulation of the wire it was taped to, try taping it to another plug lead with out nicking the plug wire.

[Chalkstk]

Chalkstk, Thinking out loud here, but I may be that the wire was supposed to be taped to the plug wire to act as a capacitive pick up like a timing light pick up but not electrically connected. If they nicked the insulation of the wire it was taped to, try taping it to another plug lead with out nicking the plug wire.

No. I took the tape off and like you said it was just coiled around outside of plug wire and taped to it. I disconnected it and caught a 12 v wire off the cigarette plug. I also noticed that the wire on the meter side just sets into a slot, no terminal?

Makes no sense, but the machine idles great without it and that was the main problem for 1 1/2 years.........duh! I'll get the brand when I go back out.

Thx,

Frankie

[Guest Lenny]

No. I took the tape off and like you said it was just coiled around outside of plug wire and taped to it. I disconnected it and caught a 12 v wire off the cigarette plug. I also noticed that the wire on the meter side just sets into a slot, no terminal?

Makes no sense, but the machine idles great without it and that was the main problem for 1 1/2 years.........duh! I'll get the brand when I go back out.

Thx,

Frankie

Kinarfi, this needs to go in special fixes. Who would have thunk.

Lenny

[Chalkstk]

Kinarfi, this needs to go in special fixes. Who would have thunk.

Lenny

The label on the meter is "dubachracing .com." I'll go to the site when I have time and check out hook-up.

Frankie

PS R-2 has a little more pazzaz since the K &N and snorkle fix. I turned the existing hose up and cut councle above the mesh. Added a 8" x 1 -1/2 " galv. pipe nipple with pvc coupling and brought it to 2- 1/4" OD for K & N to slip over. The sound is cool too except it's right beside my right ear. I'll just leave my hearing aids off

Thx All

[Chalkstk]

Yo Lenny,

Went to dubachracing.com. Hour meter does work off of inductance or capasitance on spark plug wire. But in my case, it must have messed up computer read and caused high idle. So who needs an hour meter? Still have the odometer, though it is hard to read. Not bright enough. Do you have any preference for exhaust? My muffler is louder than I'd like, but I don't want to lose performance for the sake of quiet.

Frankie

[renegade II]

Hope you have your idel prob. worked out, you will get used to the noise from the filter but it is great sounding when you step on it.

I took the end off the stock muffler and put half of a ss kitchen scrubby at the end then cut a piece of 1/4 in heavy screen and put the end back on, this cut down on the sharp noise with no side affects been running this mod for 2 years now.

[Kinarfi]

Yo Lenny,

Went to dubachracing.com. Hour meter does work off of inductance or capasitance on spark plug wire. But in my case, it must have messed up computer read and caused high idle. So who needs an hour meter? Still have the odometer, though it is hard to read. Not bright enough. Do you have any preference for exhaust? My muffler is louder than I'd like, but I don't want to lose performance for the sake of quiet.

Frankie

You said it had several wraps around the plug wire, try laying the wire along the plug wire without wrapping around the plug wire and see if that works and use a different cylinder just in case that has something to due with your x problem. The wrapping may have caused part of the problem.

Went to dubachracing.com but couldn't fine any thing about the installation of the hour meter. What was you link you used.

Kinarfi

[Chalkstk]

You said it had several wraps around the plug wire, try laying the wire along the plug wire without wrapping around the plug wire and see if that works and use a different cylinder just in case that has something to due with your x problem. The wrapping may have caused part of the problem.

Went to dubachracing.com but couldn't fine any thing about the installation of the hour meter. What was you link you used.

Kinarfi

Same site. If you click on the meter pic, it gives a little info on coiling wire etc. Why do you think hooking same way without coiling on a different plug wire might work? Trying to figure this out in my pea brain and am still foggy. It must be one sensituve computer.

Frankie

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ren 2 , I'll try the scrubby and 1/4 " wire mesh thing on the muffler........thx!

[Kinarfi]

Same site. If you click on the meter pic, it gives a little info on coiling wire etc. Why do you think hooking same way without coiling on a different plug wire might work? Trying to figure this out in my pea brain and am still foggy. It must be one sensituve computer.

Frankie

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ren 2 , I'll try the scrubby and 1/4 " wire mesh thing on the muffler........thx!

Wrapping the wire around the plug lead creates an inductor which messes with the current flow, the meter may only need the smallest of signal to work, Just on crossing or parallel for a short distance and an alternate cylinder just in case that one is special to the computer some how.

The main thing was how many wraps it had, Parallel may not work and if it doesn't, cross the lead at 90 degrees.

It all has to do with magnetics and current flow.

Did it say any more than this? It starts counting when it feels electrical pulse through spark plug wire and shuts itself off when the pulses stop. Helps monitor service intervals.

Kinarfi

[Chalkstk]

And the beat goes on. I guess I spoke too soon, The high rev intermittant problem is back. Simply beside myself without profesional help, I have a 12 thousand dollar flower pot. Bummer

Frankie

[ricksrb]

Thx Lenny, though I don't know what each of the sensors looks like. Been too lazy to study the manual. But I guess it is time. What gets me the most is the intermittent problem. Once I get it to idle, it will start and stop all day long. But after sitting for day or two as I have said, it over revs on start up and scares the ****** out of me. I took out a sensor that had a little bullet point on it. It doesn't move without ignition. I cleaned and lubed it and nothing changed. My throttle cable seems fine and idle screw is all the way relieved. But I don't know about the butterfly?

But I will do that contact stuff with all plugs. Thx again

Chalkstk

When you say"Once I get it to idle" what is your RPM's? Reason I ask is you also say "idle screw is all the way relieved".I was once told these engines with all the sensors the ECU gets alot or most of its info from the position of the throttle sensor.Maybe if its getting a reading of the idle sensor being all the way closed or all the way relieved as you say it is trying to compensate.Just a thought I could be way off.

[Chalkstk]

When you say"Once I get it to idle" what is your RPM's? Reason I ask is you also say "idle screw is all the way relieved".I was once told these engines with all the sensors the ECU gets alot or most of its info from the position of the throttle sensor.Maybe if its getting a reading of the idle sensor being all the way closed or all the way relieved as you say it is trying to compensate.Just a thought I could be way off.

When it idles, it is about 600 to 750 rpms. The idle screw is backed all the way off. If I turn it in just a touch, it over revs. In other words I can't just get to go from say 750 to 900 or a 1000 rpms. Today I fired it up, and it high revved. Turned it off, and on the next crank, it idled (a first after just two cranks). I went to town. Made a stop. Restarted and ran fine. Made another stop. Started it and it high revved again. After a series of start/ stops, I could not get it to idle at all. So I drove home with motor racing between shifts. I'm looking for a sledgehammer right now.

Thx for the input.

Frankie

[ricksrb]

When it idles, it is about 600 to 750 rpms. The idle screw is backed all the way off. If I turn it in just a touch, it over revs. In other words I can't just get to go from say 750 to 900 or a 1000 rpms. Today I fired it up, and it high revved. Turned it off, and on the next crank, it idled (a first after just two cranks). I went to town. Made a stop. Restarted and ran fine. Made another stop. Started it and it high revved again. After a series of start/ stops, I could not get it to idle at all. So I drove home with motor racing between shifts. I'm looking for a sledgehammer right now.

Thx for the input.

Frankie

not sure if this has been mentioned but have you checked the connections on your throttle body for the idle sensor and throttle sensor and vacuum hoses? i am just trying to think of things,im by far not the best person for this as many others on this forum are.good luck and dont take the hammer to it yet.

[Chalkstk]

not sure if this has been mentioned but have you checked the connections on your throttle body for the idle sensor and throttle sensor and vacuum hoses? i am just trying to think of things,im by far not the best person for this as many others on this forum are.good luck and dont take the hammer to it yet.

Rick,

I know less than you. I wouldn't know the difference between idle sensor and throttle sensor. There are no pics in pdf manual. I changed MAS sensor, because Joyner sent me one before they went kaput. It didn't chage a thing. New battery didn't work either. If this thing always high revved, we might be able to determine prob, but the intermittance is squirley at best. All I can say is nothing is obvious to the eye, but I'll look again and thx again.

Frankie

[Kinarfi]

I posted this thinking that it was a response to your problem,

Parts - UTV BOARD - Side X Side and UTV Forum

Also found this in the manual about the canister valve.

Read the last sentence.

[Chalkstk]

I posted this thinking that it was a response to your problem,

Parts - UTV BOARD - Side X Side and UTV Forum

Also found this in the manual about the canister valve.

Read the last sentence.

Kin

Cleaned and greased all terminals in engine compartment including fuse box. Where is the ECU in the R-2? Please dont tell me I have to remove the whole cowl. Okay, tell me Read about canister control valve, but how do I tell if it is bad? That is the real prob., not knowing what to buy or even if what I need is available.

And to make it worst, no one we have talked too has had this intermitant prob. It would probably be easier if it always high revved. It took about 6 cranks of start/ stop to idle today after plug cleaning. But I still need to get to ECU plugs.

Frankie

[Guest Lenny]

My first guess is that it is heat related as you have already probably considered. I may have a way to find the problem. Use a heat gun and heat up each of the sensors seperately. Once the sensor is up to temperature, try starting and see if it revs. If it does go to the next sensor and so on. If it doesn't, you may have found the problem. That problem could be the sensor or the connection. I would even try heating up the fuse and relay box a little as they also build a little heat and even the white plugs behind the drivers seat where the computer is. LOL

Lenny