Shocks! I am doing IT!

[rocmoc]

We will be traveling to So. Cal. in a couple of weeks and I am going into order / pickup my Fox Shocks with springs. I will take drawings of the geometry of the swing arms & mounts with the rear corner wieghts. Off-Road Warehouse's shock guy has a program he sticks the data in to help with the setup of the shock. I will post ALL of the info. I am only doing the rears at this time. Hopefully when I travel back in the fall I will be able to justify the fronts being purchased. Will have to remember I have moved the lower mount location so the complete setup will not be of value to everyone.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[dpostma]

We will be traveling to So. Cal. in a couple of weeks and I am going into order / pickup my Fox Shocks with springs. I will take drawings of the geometry of the swing arms & mounts with the rear corner wieghts. Off-Road Warehouse's shock guy has a program he sticks the data in to help with the setup of the shock. I will post ALL of the info. I am only doing the rears at this time. Hopefully when I travel back in the fall I will be able to justify the fronts being purchased. Will have to remember I have moved the lower mount location so the complete setup will not be of value to everyone.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

rocmoc, I put fox shocks on in Jan. They made a world of difference. Fox does not make anything that will be a replacement for the original ones. I got as close as I could get but still had to use limiting straps and also had to machine spacers to shorten the compression stroke so that the axle does not bind on the swing arm. Spings are 500 over 600 but I want to try 600 for both springs. The other thing I needed to do was to machine some steel bushings to take the slop out of the 14mm hole because fox uses a 1/2 bolt. I have been out with friend who have highly modified RZRs and am able to go toe to toe with then in the rough stuff. I might add that I also did the front and I am very happy with the entire package. I have been down to Off-Road warehouse and talked to those guys and found them to be very helpfull.

Dick, Pearblossom CA

[rocmoc]

Thanks Dick!

I am not using the original mount locations and will have a much longer throw / shock length. Will not be a problem but I still use limit straps.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[plumber]

I have a question why dual springs on a shock and not just put one spring on a shock it seems everybody puts dual springs on them

[rocmoc]

Better ride! One spring is softer than the other and takes the first smaller part of the load / bumps . When compression / load is greater the stronger spring takes over for big bumps.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[rocmoc]

Called Off Road Warehouse and I will be meeting with Jason Thursday afternoon or Friday, whichever day I can get over there. I have taken all of the required measurements of the new shock mount locations, a copy of all of Flatbed's shock posts and one of the shocks off the Trooper.. It looks like these are the shocks Off Road Warehouse - Shocks Fox Shocks 2.0 Fox Coil-Over Emulsion Shocks Fox Shocks 2.0&quot X 12.0&quot Emulsion Coil-Over #980-99-009-A or or or Off Road Warehouse - Shocks Fox Shocks 2.0 Fox Coil-Over Emulsion Shocks Fox Shocks 2.0&quot X 12.0&quot Emulsion Coil-Over #980-99-009-A The Extended length in the new location is 27" and Collapsed 20 1/2". The concern I have about the 10" shock is at rest there is less than 3" of Extended travel and will the sweet spot of the valving be missed. With the longer 12" shock at rest the shock should be in the sweet spot of the valving but will give up an inch of Collapsed travel. This should be OK as most of the existing travel is in the Collapse travel. This is something the shock expert will have to address. I was surprised to find that the factory shocks are working in an almost fully extend position with only 2" of Extended travel remaining & 6 " of collapse. Will update over the weekend.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[dpostma]

Rocmoc you really have modified the shock mounts. Mine are stock and I am using a Fox 980-99-003A W/8.5 remote reservoir , springs are Eibach springs: 0800.250.0550S (550 Lb) 800 mm free lengths (top)

Eibach springs 0800.250.0600S (600 Lb) 800 mm free lengths (bottom) At present I am using a 22" limiting strap but have ordered 22 1/2 which will just about max out the amount of extention. I had to reduce the compression stroke on the shaft by 2" I am very happy with this set up. I think that I have about 11 to 12 inch ow wheel travel now. I am limited by the axl hitting the top and bottom tubes on the swing arm.

Dick

Pearblossom, CA

[rocmoc]

Hello Dick,

I moved the lower mount rearward to where the swing arm turns forming the little leg of an L and closer toward the tire. This was to more centralize the load on the rear of the swingarm as I am bending/twisting my swing arms from heavy use and the large rims & tires. This will require a longer shock and heavier springs than the factory location.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[Guest Lenny]

Rocmoc, I would think that he dampening within the shock itself would work the same no matter where the stroke is. Nothing changes within the shock itself through its total stroke. What does change is the rate of compression or rebound. In other words based on what the angle of the shock is in reference to the swing arm, the shock will compress or rebound more per inch of wheel travel as that angle changes. I assume that the sweet spot is at a shock travel to wheel travel that is the best preformance. That would mean that the sweet spot could be anywhere on the shock itself depending on how the mount locations are set up in reference to the stroke of the swingarm. Did you box your swing arms. Thats what I did and and it makes them real strong. However be careful, boxing the swingarm forces all the twisting stress to go to the two tubing extensions that reach from the boxed portion to the swing arm pivot sleeves. I almost twisted one of those extensions completely off. It was hanging on by a thread. I ran some flat strips about 2" wide by 3/16" thick from the pivot sleeve up onto the boxed portion on both the top and bottom of both pivot sleeves to spread the stress. After that I used a strip to tie the top and bottom strips together. I've hammered mine real hard since by running off 3 and 4 foot drop offs and they stay solid. Did you just move your bottom mount. I moved both top and bottom but I also moved the bottom out closer to the tire to help elminate twisting stress. You sujested that when we were in Logandale and it was a good call. Thanks for that advise. I'll be anxious to see what springs you end up with. I moved mine out farther on the bottom and forward on the top and I'm in the 300 pound area of spring rate and still need to go a little lighter. My compression dampening is at 40 right now and my next stepwill be to try 30. I'll also be anxious to see what dampening settings you end up with. Not knowing a thing about suspension when I started, I have learned a lot. Needless to say, I have lots of springs setting around. Guess I need to get busy on Ebay.

Lenny

[rocmoc]

Hello Lenny,

I thought the same in the past about there not being a sweet spot but I recently read an article to the counter. Today with progressive valving the article said that there was a sweet spot mid-way thu the stroke of the shock. Anyway I am going over tomorrow afternoon and talk the the EXPERT and see what he has to say. I know Off Road Warehouse does a lot of the shock work on the buggies ran in the Baja Races so they should know there stuff. I know more than the average but not nearly what they should know. Will let you know what happens. As it has turned out I have great Wifi hotpoint.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[ricksrb]

Hello Lenny,

I thought the same in the past about there not being a sweet spot but I recently read an article to the counter. Today with progressive valving the article said that there was a sweet spot mid-way thu the stroke of the shock. Anyway I am going over tomorrow afternoon and talk the the EXPERT and see what he has to say. I know Off Road Warehouse does a lot of the shock work on the buggies ran in the Baja Races so they should know there stuff. I know more than the average but not nearly what they should know. Will let you know what happens. As it has turned out I have great Wifi hotpoint.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

rocmoc,

where bouts in so cal are you?

[Guest Lenny]

Hello Lenny,

I thought the same in the past about there not being a sweet spot but I recently read an article to the counter. Today with progressive valving the article said that there was a sweet spot mid-way thu the stroke of the shock. Anyway I am going over tomorrow afternoon and talk the the EXPERT and see what he has to say. I know Off Road Warehouse does a lot of the shock work on the buggies ran in the Baja Races so they should know there stuff. I know more than the average but not nearly what they should know. Will let you know what happens. As it has turned out I have great Wifi hotpoint.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

I can see with progressive valving where there would be a sweet spot. The fox shocks I have use a stack of different thickness washers and don't have a progressive feature. I can see where the dampening would work better for one spring rate then another. With dual springs I suspect that your going to tune so that both springs work acceptably. Bypass shocks would be great for tuning for each spring but $$$$.

Lenny

[ricksrb]

I am sorry to say this but the only thing Other than the word "Shock" that I understand in this conversation is "$$$$$$"(LOL).I wish I had just a fraction of the knowledge you guys have so I could begin to understand some of it.When it comes time (and i hope soon) for me to take the plunge and upgrade I hope I will not make a pest out of myself with all the questions I will be asking.Thanks,

[rocmoc]

Hopefully Rick we will have the shock replacement process refined on a couple of different type of shocks.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[Guest Lenny]

Here is a video of what I'm looking for in suspension behavier.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kbYTuFN1zA

There is another video that I couldn't find. It is also of a Trophy truck but it was a suspension test result of a setup done by the Fox shock factory people. The truck moved up and down 1/2 the amount this truck is moving. It was real impressive.

Found it: http://www.race-dezert.com/home/kinetik-trophy-truck-shock-test-video-4466.html

I realize that this requires multiple bypass shocks. I do feel that it is acheivable up to a point. I don't need to be able to go 100 MPH like the truck in this video but I do want to float over the rough stuff without getting kicked all over. In my case when done, I'll have 2 positions for the top of the shock to mount. One will allow me to load up with extra gas, water, survival gear, spare tire, good supply of tools, my two 85 LB dogs, and my wife and myself. This all adds up to about an extra 500 pounds. The lower mount location will be for when I'm alone or with my wife. I want both situations to work like this video. Ive done a lot of playing with my setup and have learned a lot. Thanks to Flatbed for starting me in the right direction. But then it's my nature to have to do my own thing and try several variations. Right or wrong but in the end I will get the behavier I'm looking for. When I do, I'll post my final setup which will be different then Rocmoc's. Not that it will ride any better but just be a different way to acheive a goal. He may also be looking for a differant ride type then I am. Like Rocmoc said, we will have final solutions that work great. Maybe I'll win the lottery and be able to get bypass shocks.

Lenny

[ricksrb]

Here is a video of what I'm looking for in suspension behavier.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kbYTuFN1zA

There is another video that I couldn't find. It is also of a Trophy truck but it was a suspension test result of a setup done by the Fox shock factory people. The truck moved up and down 1/2 the amount this truck is moving. It was real impressive.

Found it: Kinetik Trophy Truck shock test Video | race-deZert.com

I realize that this requires multiple bypass shocks. I do feel that it is acheivable up to a point. I don't need to be able to go 100 MPH like the truck in this video but I do want to float over the rough stuff without getting kicked all over. In my case when done, I'll have 2 positions for the top of the shock to mount. One will allow me to load up with extra gas, water, survival gear, spare tire, good supply of tools, my two 85 LB dogs, and my wife and myself. This all adds up to about an extra 500 pounds. The lower mount location will be for when I'm alone or with my wife. I want both situations to work like this video. Ive done a lot of playing with my setup and have learned a lot. Thanks to Flatbed for starting me in the right direction. But then it's my nature to have to do my own thing and try several variations. Right or wrong but in the end I will get the behavier I'm looking for. When I do, I'll post my final setup which will be different then Rocmoc's. Not that it will ride any better but just be a different way to acheive a goal. He may also be looking for a differant ride type then I am. Like Rocmoc said, we will have final solutions that work great. Maybe I'll win the lottery and be able to get bypass shocks.

Lenny

Lenny,

All I am looking for is to smooth out the ride a bit.What you and rocmoc come up with will definately be of help.Just make sure you dont forget your"FAVORITE NEPHEW" when you hit the lottery uncle Lenny.(LOL)

[Kinarfi]

Lenny,

All I am looking for is to smooth out the ride a bit.What you and rocmoc come up with will definately be of help.Just make sure you dont forget your"FAVORITE NEPHEW" when you hit the lottery uncle Lenny.(LOL)

Both Lenny and Rocmoc are extremest I'm lazy and didn't have to modify much, just drill a few holes and got a good ride from FOA shocks.

start here Back to shocks - UTV BOARD - Side X Side and UTV Forum - Page 3

Kinarfi

[rocmoc]

My only limit is the lack of funds. Just not enough to do everything I want! LOL!

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[visionxorb]

Im new here but Ive wanted a trooper for a long time ( dont have the money for one right now ) so I like hanging around these forums. but I thought I would mention FOA shocks as well. I run them on my dodge megacab that I run pretty hard out at glamis and pismo ( no as hard as the guys from carli suspension or thuren fabricaton but I cant aford to break anything ) And wanted to say they have help up great. My truck is 7000lbs so thats no small feat. When I got them, I did alot of digging and these shocks are basicly a clone of King prerunner series except you can get then with viton seals, the piston is almost identical and can used king parts/shims. I think being almost half the price there a very good opton for the T2.

PS should always run resevoirs when like to go fast. They cavitate alot less

[rocmoc]

Time for an update.

I was not able to break away from my work while I was in the San Diego area. But I also found I got a better price via the internet, free shipping & no sales tax. I also wanted to look at FOA after visionxorb's post. So, I have taken the time to pull info about FOA from online sources and they are not hardy enough for ME. I will still be going with Fox but via a phone call & internet order. I like the price but found too many warnings for aggressive use. There are upgrades to the basic shock but by the time they are added to the price you are nearly at the Fox price. They would be great for the cruising type, IMHO! I do want to thank visionxorb for the post.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[rocmoc]

OK I have not pulled the trigger. Decided I needed to do some more research.

What did you that have changed your shocks do with the valving? Found this really good site about valve damping, eshocks.com: Bilstein Off-Road Shock Guide This reinforced my understanding that compression damping should be on the soft side and the rebound should be firm. What I did not realize the degree / greatness of the difference. How did you all setup your damping valving?

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[Guest Lenny]

I have both the front and rear compression set to 30. Rebound on the rear is at 50 and on the front is at 45. Front springs are 300 over 250 and rear are 350 over 325. At present I plan on changing my rear rebound to 55 and the front compression to 35. On the rear I'm still getting a little more lift then I like as I'm just leaving the top from rebound when I go over a 14" high V shaped burm. The wheel is getting back down fast enough so I can slow rebound a bit. The front is bottoming out just a bit to easy. The front seems to be rebounding fine on the same burm but is bottoming a bit so I don't think I need to increase the spring rate and hoping increasing compression should take care of it. I'll shoot some video and post it so you can see what I'm looking at. Shooting video is the only way to really study just what it is doing. I'm using the full 14.5" of travel both front and rear with this test. I have 2 other test I have been running that provide added info. I'll shoot video on them too. I'm getting real close to what I'm looking for. The concern is to have enough spring so that when you set it up you can have your Trooper ride 2" to 4" from full droop and yet have enough space left inbetween the coils to go to full compression without the coils comming together first. I'm using 10" shocks and have 10" long springs over 14" springs both front and rear and everything almost comes together at full bump. The top springs of course don't collapse all the way because of the limiting collar but the bottom one is within about 1/4" of full collapse. My rear shocks are at 58 degrees from vertical and the fronts are at 42 degrees and I use almost the full 10" of travel on both.

Lenny

[silverbullet]

silverbullet

Just picked up our Trooper from AFCO shocks.We took a test ride and i cant belive how nice the Trooper rides.It seams to ride vary controlled smooth ride we have 30' tires and power steering.We will see how well it works in the coming

weeks.Our Trooper is one of the early ones and has been tortured since new.We still have to find out on the rocks how the travel is.We want to know how it works in the real world .Dual rate shocks make a big difference plus you can adjust the spring

[plumber]

silverbullet

Just picked up our Trooper from AFCO shocks.We took a test ride and i cant belive how nice the Trooper rides.It seams to ride vary controlled smooth ride we have 30' tires and power steering.We will see how well it works in the coming

weeks.Our Trooper is one of the early ones and has been tortured since new.We still have to find out on the rocks how the travel is.We want to know how it works in the real world .Dual rate shocks make a big difference plus you can adjust the spring

silverbullet how about some pic on both of them

[rocmoc]

Silverbullet, How much did/do the shocks cost?

rocmoc n AZ/Baja

[jamesrulz]

I just installed new fox 2.0 8.5" travel rear shocks on my trooper. I first tried the an 8 inch 350 tender seemed a bit soft so i put a 10 inch 400 that i was going to use on the fronts on the back for a tender and it seems like it holds in up way better. I am going to get an 8 inch 400 for the rear and still use the 10 inch 400 and 8 inch 300 for the front. I havnt tried it out yet but just wondering what everyones thoughts are on this if I should put the 8 inch 350s in or go with the 400s.

[Guest Lenny]

I just installed new fox 2.0 8.5" travel rear shocks on my trooper. I first tried the an 8 inch 350 tender seemed a bit soft so i put a 10 inch 400 that i was going to use on the fronts on the back for a tender and it seems like it holds in up way better. I am going to get an 8 inch 400 for the rear and still use the 10 inch 400 and 8 inch 300 for the front. I havnt tried it out yet but just wondering what everyones thoughts are on this if I should put the 8 inch 350s in or go with the 400s.

It's a little hard to say what you should do, but here are my thoughts or more how my thought pattern flows. This may or may not be right for your setup. You want it as soft as you can get it providing the compression dampening catches it on quicker hits. If your going slow you want it soft and when slow, the compression dampening plays less of a part. So keep it soft and first try to raise the compression dampening. If it still stays too soft then increase spring rate. Also you want to limit the tender springs to the first 3" of travel or so. If they are allowed to work more then that you may get unwanted roll in the turns. You want the main springs to catch it before roll becomes too much. Then, also keep the main springs as soft as you can and have the compression dampening catch it too, on the bigger hits. This is why a 2 stage dampening shock is nice because you can set the damperning specific for each spring. I went through a lot of springs trying to find the right setup and I'm still workjing on it. I keep going softer and softer. I'm getting it a lot closer but I'm still a little too stiff and not totally catching the real hard hits. I do bottom out but against bump stops so I'm not hammering the frame. I do however spring bottom one of my tender springs which makes a bang when it bottoms. When I say spring bottom which is not suspension bottoming, I'm saying the coils are coming completely tight together. I'll adjust this out later as I currently have too much roll. Even though I'm also suspension bottoming against my bump stops, I'll still go softer on my main springs and hope increaseing the compression dampening will catch it. On my front, I need to soften both springs. Be sure to always check that when your suspension is completely compresses that the springs still have at least a spec of space between the coils. You can check this by measuring the stroke left on the shock when your Trooper is just setting there and then add up all the spaces between the coils. There should be more space then stroke left. Keep in mind that the tender spring is limited on it's compression by the limit collar on the shock. The rebound dampening wants to be set so you don't pogo stick out of each compresson but you don't want it set so heavy that the suspension can't come back quick enough for the next bump. The whole idea here is to keep the wheels in contact with the ground as much as possible. Hope this helps in your thinking.

Lenny

[jamesrulz]

I just completed my fox shock install and it was a bit more work than i expected but the pay off was worth it. I had to redo my front upper shock mounts the new ones were to tall. I took it for a good hard ride and its completely different machine it is one of the better mods i have done so far.

[rocmoc]

Excellent! Which Fox shock did you purchase?

rocmoc n AZ/Baja

[Kinarfi]

I just completed my fox shock install and it was a bit more work than i expected but the pay off was worth it. I had to redo my front upper shock mounts the new ones were to tall. I took it for a good hard ride and its completely different machine it is one of the better mods i have done so far.

How about some photos, if you would like to put them on Webshots, TrooperFolk's photos and albums on webshots PM me and I'll give you the the Username and Password. I even put a video in an album with your name on it for you.

Kinarfi