TROOPER T2 SPRING RATES

[Gumball]

Now that I have the joy of replacing a front shock I'm thinking this is a good time to upgrade. Part of the upgrade problem is knowing where to start. The first thing that comes to mind is the Trooper front spring rate. Compression and rebound settings are not as much of problem.

Not having an easy way to measure the rate I'm hoping one of our talented owners (Lenny are you listening) may have the answer. It looks like the shock eye to eye measurement is 14 inches. By removing the spring on my good shock I can measure the compressed distance. Knowing those two things I can come up with a replacement shock if I know the spring rate.

The next big problem will be the $$$. As a low budget retiree I'm not in the King Shock league.

You're help, as always will be appreciated.

Gumball

[Kinarfi]

Now that I have the joy of replacing a front shock I'm thinking this is a good time to upgrade. Part of the upgrade problem is knowing where to start. The first thing that comes to mind is the Trooper front spring rate. Compression and rebound settings are not as much of problem.

Not having an easy way to measure the rate I'm hoping one of our talented owners (Lenny are you listening) may have the answer. It looks like the shock eye to eye measurement is 14 inches. By removing the spring on my good shock I can measure the compressed distance. Knowing those two things I can come up with a replacement shock if I know the spring rate.

The next big problem will be the $$$. As a low budget retiree I'm not in the King Shock league.

You're help, as always will be appreciated.

Gumball

another piece of info that you may want is the weight on each wheel, from rocmoc comes the following info, Trooper T2 weights, 380lb. on each front wheel, 480 lb. on left rear, 520 on right rear TOTAL = 1760 pounds which is posted under Parts, Pieces, and Information thread.

You can go to http://www.f-o-a.com and they have shock spring rate calculator you can try.

Kinarfi

[rocmoc]

Original credit for the weight info goes to our long lost friend Flatbed. He is the one who did the first shock upgrades. Unfortunately most of his post were lost in the software upgrade of the sit about a year ago.

Fox Shocks, IMHO, are the best value for the dollar.

rocmoc n AZ/Baja

[Kinarfi]

Original credit for the weight info goes to our long lost friend Flatbed. He is the one who did the first shock upgrades. Unfortunately most of his post were lost in the software upgrade of the sit about a year ago.

Fox Shocks, IMHO, are the best value for the dollar.

rocmoc n AZ/Baja

Thanks for the correction Rocmoc, Sorry Flatbed, where you been?

Kinarfi

[Gumball]

Thank you guys for the spring information. All I need now is $$$$.

I'll let you know if I come up with something exciting. I did buy a couple of the blue King copy rear shocks from Tempe and they work great. I should have bought a couple more for my friends.

Gumball

[rocmoc]

What tires your are running can make a big difference. With the original small tires on my Trooper, the front end seem to be sprung nearly perfectly. I would hit things and it was very smooth. The back seemed too hard with a bang when engaged. After I put the large 31" tires on, the rear became nearly perfect - very smooth alto does need a LOT more damping. But the front became stiff, too hard. Like the rear before, a bang when I hit something. This IS something that needs to be taken into consideration even tho you will not see anything published. Tires & AIR PRESSURE make a BIG difference!

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[Guest Lenny]

Now that I have the joy of replacing a front shock I'm thinking this is a good time to upgrade. Part of the upgrade problem is knowing where to start. The first thing that comes to mind is the Trooper front spring rate. Compression and rebound settings are not as much of problem.

Not having an easy way to measure the rate I'm hoping one of our talented owners (Lenny are you listening) may have the answer. It looks like the shock eye to eye measurement is 14 inches. By removing the spring on my good shock I can measure the compressed distance. Knowing those two things I can come up with a replacement shock if I know the spring rate.

The next big problem will be the $$$. As a low budget retiree I'm not in the King Shock league.

You're help, as always will be appreciated.

Gumball

Mine is a comletely modified setup so unles you want to make major changes what I'm doing will not work for you. However I did save a copy in notpad of all the lost suspension post that were made by Flatbed and some others. They are all connected together but still make sense and tell you just what flatbed did. Well here it is.

Lenny

flatbed

Shocks that you can adjust would be great, a ice chest in the back makes a huge difference in the susp. Lenny, the angle i am talkiing about is between the arm and the shock, if the shock is starting to stand strait up as you compress, it will make the spring not react correctly. I am running a 8" 300lb tender over a 10" 600lb on a 2.0 fox shock. I think a 350 on the tender would be better because you would not getting into the 600 as quick. I am not trying to sound like a know it all, just want other people reading this form to understand each others point of view. Like i said, i have 14 1/2 inches of travel in the back, the ride is outstanding and all i did was relocate the rear diff as you have done, but i moved the lower shock mount towards the rear about 3/4 of a inch and braced the arm. I have the front shocks, same size 2.0s with 300 over 400 but i have not put them in because i do not want to change the angles, i have to cut the tubing in the front of the car so i can move the the upper shock mount. I want the full 14 1/2 inches of travel in the front also. I do not know what the rear stock spring rate is, but i do know that it is more than a 600. the valving in my rear shocks is 50-40 with 200lbs of nitrigen.

the top mount is in the stock location. the lower shock mount is 14 1/2 " from the center of both the bolts that hold the trailing arm on, the mount is 1 3/4" up from the surface of the arm, all measurements are from center of bolt. Before welding make shure the shock is fully extended, put your hand on the axle and make shure you can move it, also rotate the cv joint to make shure it is not binding. the drain plug on my diff is 3/16" from the bottom of the tube, almost even with the bottom of the frame.

The 2.0 fox shock that has a 8.5" stroke will not fit in the front without limiting straps. It is about 2 1/2" to long. I am going to redo the frame where the upper shock mount is because i want to have as much travel as possible. I will have to cut the shock tower out and build a new one. Like i said the fox 8.5 in stroke shock will work in the front. I think you would want to run 2 8" springs instead of a 8 and 10" spring.

Anyway i took the trooper out last night in the rain with the wife. I can not tell you how big of a difference the rear shocks make. The back is so smooth and no bucking. It makes the front feel very rough. For clairaty the 8" spring is called a tender spring and the 10" is your primary spring. I am running a 300 on the tender spring, this is the spring that is holding you up when you are just crusing. I think a 350 would be better but the 300 works great. on a t-4 i would run a 400 because of obvious reasons. The 600 is the primary spring witch gets used when you get after it and start working the susp. As the coil over shocks compress through there stroke the tender spring will colaspe first because it is soffter. there is a collar on the shock that will only let the tender spring colaspe so much and than it starts working the primary spring wich is stiffer so it slows the susp. down. The valving that i have in the shock is 50-40. The collar that is holding the tender spring is 4 3/8 down from the colored part of the shock, i believe the primary is down 6". I will give you more info wen i get back home. The trooper feels very different when driving. Because the springs are soffter than stock with the tenders the car leans when you turn just like a race truck in the dirt. It is a good felling, you can tell you have more hook up in the dirt. I can not wait to get the front done. After market shocks should be the first thing you do on a trooper, it makes a huge difference, i have only done the back and the car is 100% better.

rocmoc

talked to Simon the shock expert as OffRoad Warehouse in San Diego today. We talked first about 2.0 vs 2.5 shock. I will summarize, Flatbed is right on mark. 2.5 is a little too big/harsh. The valving would have to be backed down on the damping too much. Therefore Fox 2.0 shocks are the way to go. Remote reservoir is recommended but increases cost. Double springs is the way to go but also increase cost. I will be getting all the required data together and Simon will run it in his computer program for spring rates and valving. I will not have this completed until after we return in Jan.

flatbed

Rocmoc, on the 2.0 shock that i used i put a bump stop on the shock shaft, 1 1/2" long to limit the compresion stroke, the bump stop is rubber so it will give alittle, don"t for get that i lowered my rear-end. I ended up with 14 1/2 inches of travel. I am curious what Simon is going to come up with. The front will end up with 14 1/2" travel also, i just have to rebuild the uper shock tower to get the shock to fit. Like you said the 2 spring setup is the way to go, very soft ride, made the wife very happy. If you take your time you can get a deal on the springs, same with the shocks. On the rear shock sticking the bump stop in keeps you from pulling the cv out on compression, you also have to clearance the trailing arm alittle, very easy. I cut the lower shock mount off and built a new one so i could get the shock shaft fully extended and not pull the cv out, don't need to run a limit strap on the fox shock in this application. I did not sycle the suspension with the tire on, i think if i hit hard enough i could get into the fender, stock i was getting around 8" of travel, so you can see the travel almost doubled. I am going to a wedding this weekend so it is going to be awhile before i get the front shocks in.

4x4x454

Whats the id on the springs I have found some on Summit for about $35-45 a piece. They are 300# 10" for about $35 do you think they would work or would a variable rate one work?

flatbed

The id on the springs for 2.0 is 2.5", they will work on the stock shocks. I think you would want to use a 10 and a 5 for the tender on the rears

There 8" shock is 1" longer in both the compresed and extended positions. The lower mount would have to be moved closer to the wheel, i think you would be giving up some of your compresion stroke. It would be interesting to know how much more this shock weighs. On the fox shocks they where alot lighter than stock. It does look like these shocks would work. don't know how well, but almost anything is better than stock.

Shocks that you can adjust would be great, a ice chest in the back makes a huge difference in the susp

shock guy called today. 23.35 " long 2.0 shocks with 8" of stroke with springs, These are fox shocks @ 285.00 apiece. I was very busy when he called, but i think these have 2 springs per shock

rocmoc

The angle of the CV/axle to the carrier hub in the rear suspension is not centered/neutral, the axle is over committed to the extended position. There is very little extension travel in the Trooper's rear suspension. I had to back off the spring adjustment on my Trooper. The factory ride height has the spring maxed with the shock at full extension. If you lower the diff, you move the axle to a more neutral position. The Fox 2.5 shock with 8" of travel is 25+" extended. In this new diff position, the springs can carry the load to the exiting height with more travel in the extend position without increasing the CV/axle angle and without the spring load/adjustment maxed. If you do not move the diff, you will be required to run limit straps at around 22" or the axle will over extend the angle on the CV. In looking at the Trooper's rear suspension, I believe they made an error in not designing the CV/axle angle more neutral. This is a problem I had to work with on my last race car. People were doing the opposite, lowering the car's ride height too much making the CV/axle angle too severe in the compressed position. After just a couple races the CV would fail. In our case the CV could pull apart before it ever fails. I believe at this point a 25+" extend shock is required with limit straps until the diff is lowered or you will have to buy new shocks twice.

Flatbed, what are the chances of asking your Fox Shock guy what his price would be for a set of two 2.5 remote reservoir shocks with 8" of travel? Also what would be his opinion of using our existing springs. The Trooper feels pretty balanced, the need is damping!

flatbed

I have not sycled the rear shock so i do not know if we are trying to pull the axle out when compressed, I know when i sycled the front i was not impreseed with the cv angles. I will call tonight and see what i can find out on the shocks, I will try to get the trooper on a set of scales this week so we can get some real numbers. I know you know this rocmoc, but we can also change the angle on the shocks so that we can use all of the shock so that we can get some real droop in the car with out the spring being bound.

I also have the shocks so that they are not fully extended when sitting, if you have one wheel high on arock in the rear it letts the other tire have some weight on it. The limiting straps that rocmoc has keeps him from having the spring trying to drive the shock apart. I have a felling that where he rides he needs the ground clearance. I also have the same problem of getting myself into spots i should not be in.

Ordered 2 fox shocks for the rear last night. they are 23.35 inches long with a 8.50 inch stroke. I should be able to pick them up today. I am getting them for less than 200 apiece. Going to superstition this week-end so i should be able to give you a report on how different it feels.

The shocks i have are 2.0 with no springs. Tried putting the stock springs on tonight, they are to small in diamenter, you could run them but they would ruin the threads on the shock. The shocks have all the hardware for dual rate springs. I also noted at the trooper store today that they have change the location of the rear shock mounts a little bit on the new troopers. They also have a recess in the dash to put things. Any way i am going to wait untill i get back from this trip to mount the shocks. I did notice that when i had the spring off the old shock that there is hardley any rebound in the shock and the compression is pretty stiff. From what i have done with shocks i see where shocks on the trooper will make a huge difference. Rocmoc, i feel that the 2.0 will be more than what we need, i do not see where we need the reiviours either. You would have to beat this shock to death. Also these shocks are lighter than stock and not running resiviours helps also. I really want to put the trooper on a diet. I guess now i will have to get weights so i can get the new springs.

the 2.0 have a smaller shaft than stock, plus the valve body and tube are bigger. The shocks probably hold twice the amount of oil than stock. With the shaft size being smaller more oil has to move through the ports on rebound. I am shure you know about this , just saying for others so they know. I was amaazed at how much the stock spring is compressed on the stock shock, over 2 inches, no wonder the springs are ripping the shock apart. After looking at the stock shock i am very excited to see how we do with after market shocks. Like i said when i get back i will weigh the trooper and go from there on the springs, i will go with the duall rate

rocmoc

So Koool! I just bought a set of GREAT used 31X10.5X15 rock/mudders tires for the new rims off of Craigslist. They have a little wear but more than I will ever use on the Trooper. I will pick them up on Sat but will not have time to mount them until we get back from the trip.

I just got the front shocks mounted on the trooper, the 8.5s fit under the hood, i was kinda of worried that i was going to have to trim a hole for the shock tower. I ended up cutting the tube that goes across the hood and the uprights out. The new shock tower just uses the center of the frame, so there is no cross bar in the hood. I keep the shocks at the same angles as stock, just made the upper mount taller and of course closer together because they tilt towards each other. The centers on the upper shock mount bolts are 10". I have added kickers and braces so it is plenty strong. I have to shorten the fenders because the tires will now come up and hit them. The susp is so soft that i can put a 16" block under one front wheel and all the tires stay on the ground. I now have 250 over 400s on the front with 30 over 35 on the valving. Drove it around some today, the trooper feels alot different.