Shock Idea

[rocmoc]

I just had an idea. I an actually very happy with my current springs in the rear. What if I built new upper shock mounts / location to go with the new lower mounts location I have already built. This would free up both of the current shock mount locations, upper & lower. With the current shock & springs in the new location, this would fix the moment/twist in the swing arm causing the neg camber. In the old shock location I would install these, http://offroadwarehouse.com/products/sfID1/12/sfID2/113/sfID3/93/productID/55. What ya think? LOT Less expensive solution and I would be dealing only with the damping issue of which I have NONE with the current shocks.

rocmoc n AZ

[rocmoc]

Or http://offroadwarehouse.com/products/sfID1/12/sfID2/113/sfID3/94/productID/40575

rocmoc n AZ

[Guest Lenny]

I just had an idea. I an actually very happy with my current springs in the rear. What if I built new upper shock mounts / location to go with the new lower mounts location I have already built. This would free up both of the current shock mount locations, upper & lower. With the current shock & springs in the new location, this would fix the moment/twist in the swing arm causing the neg camber. In the old shock location I would install these, http://offroadwarehouse.com/products/sfID1/12/sfID2/113/sfID3/93/productID/55. What ya think? LOT Less expensive solution and I would be dealing only with the damping issue of which I have NONE with the current shocks.

rocmoc n AZ

Watch Race Dezert http://www.race-dezert.com/home/ there are quite often good buys on shocks there. I didn't pay more then about $250 dollars for both of my rear Fox 2" x 10 coil over with remote reservoir shocks. They were basiczlly like brand new. I think you will be happier in the long run to go with a dual rate coil over setup. I haven't got mine dialed in yet, been working on other stuff, but it just gets better and better. I'm getting close. I'm suprised what I can go through and still get a good ride and best of all, it holds traction no matter what I'm doing with it. When you rode mine at Farmington, we hit some pretty rough spots and It tool is quite well. We did bottom out once but that was because the spring on my rear right side was packing solid before the the shock was through its full stroke. I was loosing about 3" of travel on that side. Found out that the matched pair of springs I bought for this wasn't matched except in looks. The rear right was softer, thus I had to preload it more cutting down on useable travel. I've got the ride somewhat softer now and still can drop it 4 feet down and it catches it without any hard hitting. I'm all the way down to the 200 to 300 pound range with my springs. Currently looking for some 175s.

Lenny

[rocmoc]

Lenny, I will check the site but from a technical view, what do you think?

rocmoc n AZ

[rocmoc]

Ok Lenny, I looked at every shock on the site and will continue to monitor the site for a while. Currently I can get new shocks for what they wanted for the used shocks and less than what they wanted for new in box never used shocks. So in the mean time I am going to build and add another upper shock mount. Won't hurt anything and just gives more options. Will better than the current config.

Tomorrow I will have the welder, chop saw, drill press & metal out to work on the Toyhauler. So I will start the mounts also. Suppose to be 70 degrees before is turns cold again for a couple of days.

rocmoc n AZ

[Kinarfi]

Tomorrow I will have the welder, chop saw, drill press & metal out to work on the Toyhauler. So I will start the mounts also. Suppose to be 70 degrees before is turns cold again for a couple of days.

rocmoc n AZ

You can be so cruel, here I sit with a heat blanket on my lap and 13 degrees out side. Also have heat blanket on the bed.

Kinarfi

[rocmoc]

Kinarfi, Lots of deals on houses currently in AZ. It is getting down to freezing at night time and that is a month early. We had the coldest Turkey Day in 30 years. Your cold air is slipping to far South. Or there are lots of camping spots in AZ. Load up the Trooper and meet us in Lake Havasu Dec 10th.

rocmoc n AZ

[Guest Lenny]

Lenny, I will check the site but from a technical view, what do you think?

rocmoc n AZ

You have to watch the site for the deals. Your right, usually the prices are too high but not always and good deals show up regularly. Two of my shocks came from this site. Technically I don't have a problem with the concept at all. You will have to go to a dual spring setup to get a soft ride and yet still take the big hits. Nothing says that the springs have to be over the shocks except for some added weight maybe. I guess the main thing is that coil over shocks have provisions built in for dual springs with their adjustment making it an easy solution. You would need this for proper setup. However I can see having the shock seperate from the springs being an advantage when it's time to adjust dampening. Getting spring loaded shocks out is a bit of a hassel. If the swing arm didn't hit the axel I could let the shocks extent to their end making it easier but I can't. I still have to remove the springs to pull the shock apart anywway. Now, if you were to find a pair of warn out shocks with the dual spring setup you could probably get them for nothing and just use them to hold the springs only. Post a request for this and other shocks on Race Dezert. I always have stuff around that I just as soon sell but don't make work of it, but if someone ask about it I'll jump on the opportunity to get rid of the stuff.

Wished I could meet you guys in Yuma but It's not going to happen. Usually around March or April we go to Tuson to visit family. I'll let you know and maybe we can go riding or just visit. I do plan on also visiting Jerry Dillman (snowbird) in Phoenix on the same trip.

Lenny

[rocmoc]

We will be gone some of March & April, fixed dates. For sure we will ride if we are both here at the same time. There are some great rides around here & Tucson.

rocmoc n AZ

[Guest Lenny]

We will be gone some of March & April, fixed dates. For sure we will ride if we are both here at the same time. There are some great rides around here & Tucson.

rocmoc n AZ

Were flexible on when we go for the most part. Let me know when your going to be around and I'll try to plan around it. I gave you incorrect information on my spring rates. I'm using what I said on the front but on the rear, I moved my lower mounts more towards the front and now I'm using 350 over 500 and it's real close. Can't proceed with it until I get the front closer.

Lenny

[rocmoc]

Were flexible on when we go for the most part. Let me know when your going to be around and I'll try to plan around it. I gave you incorrect information on my spring rates. I'm using what I said on the front but on the rear, I moved my lower mounts more towards the front and now I'm using 350 over 500 and it's real close. Can't proceed with it until I get the front closer.

Lenny

Will PM you with the dates.

rocmoc n AZ

[rocmoc]

I DID IT! I am going with my new plan as my pot of gold has a bottom. This is what I bought, http://offroadwarehouse.com/products/sfID1/12/sfID2/113/sfID3/93/productID/164. If you put in the word BLACKFRIDAY in the coupon box in checkout you get another 10% off so my total for the two shocks was $243 with free shipping, no tax & one additional free re-valving if I don't like my first choice. This is going to work best for me. I am already so pleased with the ride of my trooper and this is just going to make it better. The total plan takes care of my swing arm issue. If I replace with coil overs in the front, someday, then I will have two back up shocks & spring setups for the rear.

As a side note the Toyhauler's suspension is going to require a rebuild again. We did one at 30,000 miles on the original factory parts and replaced with better parts. The better parts lasted just over 70,000 miles. So this also has to come out of the pot of gold. There is also damage to one of the spring hangers but I will arc weld and re-drill. So Rick I am working on the trailer and will keep you updated for the Lake Havasu trip. Should still make it as long as the weather stays good as the trailer is outside. I should have tore is down in the trailer garage but I did not have a plug for the welder.

rocmoc n AZ

[ricksrb]

I DID IT! I am going with my new plan as my pot of gold has a bottom. This is what I bought, http://offroadwarehouse.com/products/sfID1/12/sfID2/113/sfID3/93/productID/164. If you put in the word BLACKFRIDAY in the coupon box in checkout you get another 10% off so my total for the two shocks was $243 with free shipping, no tax & one additional free re-valving if I don't like my first choice. This is going to work best for me. I am already so pleased with the ride of my trooper and this is just going to make it better. The total plan takes care of my swing arm issue. If I replace with coil overs in the front, someday, then I will have two back up shocks & spring setups for the rear.

As a side note the Toyhauler's suspension is going to require a rebuild again. We did one at 30,000 miles on the original factory parts and replaced with better parts. The better parts lasted just over 70,000 miles. So this also has to come out of the pot of gold. There is also damage to one of the spring hangers but I will arc weld and re-drill. So Rick I am working on the trailer and will keep you updated for the Lake Havasu trip. Should still make it as long as the weather stays good as the trailer is outside. I should have tore is down in the trailer garage but I did not have a plug for the welder.

rocmoc n AZ

Hope we can get together Rocmoc,I am also working on getting coverage so I can get away at least for the weekend.What time do you think you would be there that Friday? Depending when you plan on getting there I might try for Friday or that Monday off as well.Would be nice if others could make it as well.

[rocmoc]

Hope we can get together Rocmoc,I am also working on getting coverage so I can get away at least for the weekend.What time do you think you would be there that Friday? Depending when you plan on getting there I might try for Friday or that Monday off as well.Would be nice if others could make it as well.

Rick, I am taking this off line to the PM. I'm sending you a PM now.

rocmoc n AZ

[rocmoc]

Spoke to Off Road Warehouse about the damping valving for my shocks this morning. The valving will be set for off-road racing and I get one free revalve after I try them out. SO the trip in a couple of weeks will be the trial. Turns out the valving & online orders are done at the Balboa store and this is the one I have use in the past.

rocmoc n AZ

[Guest Lenny]

Spoke to Off Road Warehouse about the damping valving for my shocks this morning. The valving will be set for off-road racing and I get one free revalve after I try them out. SO the trip in a couple of weeks will be the trial. Turns out the valving & online orders are done at the Balboa store and this is the one I have use in the past.

rocmoc n AZ

What valving are they starting with?

Lenny

[rocmoc]

Their off-road desert valve package. I didn't ask for the specs. I told them what I wanted to be able to do, preform like the race trucks on the off-road tracks, and they said that matches their off-road desert setup.

rocmoc n AZ

[Guest Lenny]

Their off-road desert valve package. I didn't ask for the specs. I told them what I wanted to be able to do, preform like the race trucks on the off-road tracks, and they said that matches their off-road desert setup.

rocmoc n AZ

When you get a chance, ask them what the compression and rebound dampening are set at. It should be a number for each probably between 30 and 90.

Lenny

[rocmoc]

Will do!

rocmoc n AZ

[rocmoc]

When you get a chance, ask them what the compression and rebound dampening are set at. It should be a number for each probably between 30 and 90.

Lenny

My Fox Shocks are coming 50 compression & 70 rebound. I still get one revalve of my choice in the future. I will consider the revalve after the LH to Yuma trip (if my parts arrive for the trailer). What are you numbers?

rocmoc n AZ

[Guest Lenny]

My Fox Shocks are coming 50 compression & 70 rebound. I still get one revalve of my choice in the future. I will consider the revalve after the LH to Yuma trip (if my parts arrive for the trailer). What are you numbers?

rocmoc n AZ

I running 50 compression and 60 rebound on the rear with 350# over 500# springs. The center of the bolt of my upper shock mount is 2-3/4" down from the center of the horizontal tube behind the seat and 3-1/2" back from the center of the tube. The lower mount is 15" back from from the center of the swing arm pivot bolt and level with the top of the swingarm. I can have it level because it's off to the side of it like your doing to reduce swingarm twisting forces. I'm running 10" shocks where I beleive your running 8". My shock stroke nearly tops out on compression with just a bit to spare. It has to hit the bump stops pretty hard to bottom the suspension but yet won't bottom the shock. Same at full extension with the limit straps catching it just before they are fully extended. The bump stops are nice, allows softer spring settings without being concerned with occasional heavy hits which they catch. The back suspension is real close but may increase rebound some yet. Can't tell on the compression yet until I get the front closer. It's still stiffer then I want and rebounds too quickly so if I'm running at any speed at all, the rebound disguises the compression in the back.

Lenny

[rocmoc]

Shocks arrived today. Sure are Purrtty. Got most of the plates for the new mount cut today. Will refine tomorrow and hopefully start welding. I have to weld the spring hanger on the trailer at the same time.

rocmoc n AZ

[rocmoc]

What did you guys do about the large dia hole for the existing Joyner shock? The new Fox shock takes a smaller bolt dia so a smaller hole in the mounts. How did you make the holes smaller?

rocmoc n AZ

[Guest Lenny]

What did you guys do about the large dia hole for the existing Joyner shock? The new Fox shock takes a smaller bolt dia so a smaller hole in the mounts. How did you make the holes smaller?

rocmoc n AZ

I just made little tubular shims that were the length of the thickness of the bracket. Since then I have replaced all of the brackets with correctly drilled plates. Another option would be to weld around the hole and redrill. A slight misalignment of the hole won't hurt anything.

Lenny

[rocmoc]

New upper mounts are cut and ready to weld. Bought a Millermatic 180 Mig today and put the thing together. Have to change out one 220 V plug on the house tomorrow and will hopefully have the new mounts weld on the Trooper by early afternoon. Also need the mig for repairs to the spring hangers on the trailer. Got tired of using my 40 year old Lincoln Stick welder. Got spoiled using my buddy's Miller Mig but he had to move away for work. Now I will get things done!

rocmoc n AZ

[Kinarfi]

New upper mounts are cut and ready to weld. Bought a Millermatic 180 Mig today and put the thing together. Have to change out one 220 V plug on the house tomorrow and will hopefully have the new mounts weld on the Trooper by early afternoon. Also need the mig for repairs to the spring hangers on the trailer. Got tired of using my 40 year old Lincoln Stick welder. Got spoiled using my buddy's Miller Mig but he had to move away for work. Now I will get things done!

rocmoc n AZ

Sweet, are you going to run gas or inner shield welding wire. I ran gas for quite a while and ran out on a Sunday, so I switched to the inner shield, I think it gives a better penetration because you run more heat, but it is messier because of the inner flux, it's also brighter to look at.

On my shocks, FOA sent some spacers that fit up against the shock eye and space the eye in the center of the bracket and & shims that filled the hole and used a standard 1/2" bolt.

Kinarfi

[rocmoc]

Sweet, are you going to run gas or inner shield welding wire. I ran gas for quite a while and ran out on a Sunday, so I switched to the inner shield, I think it gives a better penetration because you run more heat, but it is messier because of the inner flux, it's also brighter to look at.

On my shocks, FOA sent some spacers that fit up against the shock eye and space the eye in the center of the bracket and & shims that filled the hole and used a standard 1/2" bolt.

Kinarfi

I am using gas but shield does penetrate deeper & is hotter. Just got back from a bicyle ride so am headed out to weld now.

rocmoc n AZ

[rocmoc]

I weld the upper mounts into place today. The only thing left to do is purchase two drill bits , one the size of the new shocks & one the Joyner shock size, and bolts for the new shocks. Will be going into Tucson tomorrow early so maybe finished tomorrow afternoon. I WILL take PICS. Then a test drive.

rocmoc n AZ

[rocmoc]

INSTALLED!

What a pain in the A**! The bolts holes were the toughest part of the entire upgrade. Alignment, size & etc. But it is finished.

Major upgrade! But interesting, the feel is stiffer. Before the front shocks were stiff with the rear being soft, too soft. Now it is BALANCED, but a bit on the stiff side. I took a little ride and it is much, much better. The ride on pavement is just like a car. Washboard is not even a issue, almost like pavement. Rode out thu the rough stuff and went thu dips, drops & bumps and where I backed off in the past, I never let up. Never bottomed out or over extended. Excellent but feels stiff. In fact feels twitchy on the smooth stuff. Since the feel is so balanced, I am going to soften/back-off the springs on both the front & rear. (side note the rear ride height is now a bit higher) I put the new shock location at more of an angle to maintain the travel since the shock was move towards the rear & lowered the upper mount to capture some of the travel when I lowered the diff mount. I installed the upper mount inside of the lower mount to keep from hitting the rear tire in compression, very important.

In summary, Better, much much better. I am softening the springs so the damping of the Fox Shocks can work MORE. Level of pain doing this mod, A LOT! But worth it, not easy. Very pleased with the final product.

PICS were TAKEN and will be uploaded.

rocmoc n AZ

[ricksrb]

INSTALLED!

What a pain in the A**! The bolts holes were the toughest part of the entire upgrade. Alignment, size & etc. But it is finished.

Major upgrade! But interesting, the feel is stiffer. Before the front shocks were stiff with the rear being soft, too soft. Now it is BALANCED, but a bit on the stiff side. I took a little ride and it is much, much better. The ride on pavement is just like a car. Washboard is not even a issue, almost like pavement. Rode out thu the rough stuff and went thu dips, drops & bumps and where I backed off in the past, I never let up. Never bottomed out or over extended. Excellent but feels stiff. In fact feels twitchy on the smooth stuff. Since the feel is so balanced, I am going to soften/back-off the springs on both the front & rear. (side note the rear ride height is now a bit higher) I put the new shock location at more of an angle to maintain the travel since the shock was move towards the rear & lowered the upper mount to capture some of the travel when I lowered the diff mount. I installed the upper mount inside of the lower mount to keep from hitting the rear tire in compression, very important.

In summary, Better, much much better. I am softening the springs so the damping of the Fox Shocks can work MORE. Level of pain doing this mod, A LOT! But worth it, not easy. Very pleased with the final product.

PICS were TAKEN and will be uploaded.

rocmoc n AZ

Congrats,looking forward to the pics.Now you can do mine,should be a breeze..(LOL) Glad to hear you got it done,know you have been wanting to do it for some time.