Trooper computer programmer

[Guest Lenny]

There is a company I ran across at the CES trade show this year. They make a programmer that should be able to program the Troopers computer. About $300. The Trooper s computer is a standard Bosch car computer. The only differance is that it is programed for the Trooper. The programmer will program most any car or truck so it should work. The company could probably help is finding which program the computer uses and assist finding out which computer pins to hook to. This programmer will program all aspects of the tuning including things like Pulse width tables, VE tables, Timing tables, prime pulse width, crank pulse width, after start pulse width, warmup pulse width, enrichment pulse widths, acceleration pulse widths. rev limit and more.

The site: http://www.sctflash.com/

Their forum: http://www.sctflash.com/forum/

Lenny

[ricksrb]

  On 1/18/2011 at 2:27 PM, Lenny said:

There is a company I ran across at the CES trade show this year. They make a programmer that should be able to program the Troopers computer. About $300. The Trooper s computer is a standard Bosch car computer. The only differance is that it is programed for the Trooper. The programmer will program most any car or truck so it should work. The company could probably help is finding which program the computer uses and assist finding out which computer pins to hook to. This programmer will program all aspects of the tuning including things like Pulse width tables, VE tables, Timing tables, prime pulse width, crank pulse width, after start pulse width, warmup pulse width, enrichment pulse widths, acceleration pulse widths. rev limit and more.

The site: http://www.sctflash.com/

Their forum: http://www.sctflash.com/forum/

Lenny

You said $300,is that after they find out which program the Trooper uses or is that to find out which program it is? Also do they need the vehicle to do this or just the computer? I have a spare computer that could be sent if thats all they would need.

[Mopartist]

Wow; thats awesome! I have an 07' WRX STI and once a local tuner got ahold of it; he unlocked tons of power. It's all over my head; but somebody who understands the process can really make a huge difference in the way that little Cheri engine runs.

[Guest Lenny]

  On 1/18/2011 at 2:54 PM, ricksrb said:

You said $300,is that after they find out which program the Trooper uses or is that to find out which program it is? Also do they need the vehicle to do this or just the computer? I have a spare computer that could be sent if thats all they would need.

You buy their module and do it yourself. It cost $300. I'm assuming that they would be willing without charge to assist in determining the program and hookup points. After all, they would like to sell to the probably 1000 Troooper owners across the country and elseware. If you have an extra computer, Call them, maybe they could use it to determine the program. After all, I assume that their people wrote the software for their module so they should have a very intimate knowledge of the workings and interface. There is a learning curve to the tuning but you will learn a lot like I did. I understand the ins and outs of how an engine is managed quite well now and still learning. I think you could get a lot of extra torque out of the Trooper with it. It's stock tuning is quite conservative on the low end and I beleive it's tuned more for high end power. You should be able to keep the top end and add more fuel and timing advance to the low end for increased torque. When I talked to them at the show he said that there isn't much that can't be tuned with it. I didn't talk to him specifically about the Trooper and was more interested in representing the product for resale but decided that I didn't know enough about that world to attempt it. I don't like representing something that I can't understand it's workings completely. To get the best price it might be necessary to convince them to sell to the forum group as a single entity.

Lenny

[ricksrb]

  On 1/18/2011 at 7:30 PM, Lenny said:

You buy their module and do it yourself. It cost $300. I'm assuming that they would be willing without charge to assist in determining the program and hookup points. After all, they would like to sell to the probably 1000 Troooper owners across the country and elseware. If you have an extra computer, Call them, maybe they could use it to determine the program. After all, I assume that their people wrote the software for their module so they should have a very intimate knowledge of the workings and interface. There is a learning curve to the tuning but you will learn a lot like I did. I understand the ins and outs of how an engine is managed quite well now and still learning. I think you could get a lot of extra torque out of the Trooper with it. It's stock tuning is quite conservative on the low end and I beleive it's tuned more for high end power. You should be able to keep the top end and add more fuel and timing advance to the low end for increased torque. When I talked to them at the show he said that there isn't much that can't be tuned with it. I didn't talk to him specifically about the Trooper and was more interested in representing the product for resale but decided that I didn't know enough about that world to attempt it. I don't like representing something that I can't understand it's workings completely. To get the best price it might be necessary to convince them to sell to the forum group as a single entity.

Lenny

I sent them an email.see what happens.

[Jarrad]

Lenny drop me an email, let's chat Jarrad

[rocmoc]

  On 1/19/2011 at 12:29 AM, Snowman6479 said:

Lenny drop me an email, let's chat Jarrad

Yeah, sounds like an aftermarket product. Doesn't FastFreddie make a reprogrammed computer for the Trooper.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[ricksrb]

  On 1/19/2011 at 2:42 AM, rocmoc said:

Yeah, sounds like an aftermarket product. Doesn't FastFreddie make a reprogrammed computer for the Trooper.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

Yes they do/did.It was about 6 or 8 months ago i called and they had one for about $900 or so then they want another $150 o install and program and test on their dyno.Cant remeber exact prices but it was around there.

[rocmoc]

A little competition is suppose to bring prices down. Come on Lenny & Snowman, do it!

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[Jarrad]

I for one have installed that kit from fast freddies the instructions look like someone drew them on a bar napkin. When people ask me about it I give them my honest opinion. It is not worth the money, that 1k can be better spent on other things

[Mopartist]

Lenny;

Is this the same computer tuner you checked out at the trade show?

http://www.tobefast.com/joyner-1100-trooper-computer-c-63650-p-1-pr-10000958-f-64524.html

[Guest Lenny]

  On 1/19/2011 at 9:45 PM, Mopartist said:

Lenny;

Is this the same computer tuner you checked out at the trade show?

http://www.tobefast.com/joyner-1100-trooper-computer-c-63650-p-1-pr-10000958-f-64524.html

No, that isn't the one I saw.

Lenny

[Jarrad]

The way Lenny makes it sound and the way it should be is that it is user tunable. I would not have a add-on ecu unless I could play with the parameters myself. Kind of like we did back in the day with our mustangs and a program they called tweeker. It allowed everything to be end user adjustable. Much like the megasquirt where you can adjust timing, injector pulse width, so on and so forth. The real problem with modifying a Joyner 1100 is that they use a speed density system, where as a mass air system is more acceptible to mods without adversely effecting performance. Mass air actually measures the incoming air and adjusts where a speed density system measures rpm, air temp, coolant temp, barometric pressure, manifold pressure, and a dew other things and guesses at what to do based on a pre programed code in the ECM. Once you change something like stroke or cam or anything else it then does not really know how much air is coming into motor so therefore it cannot compensate. This is where mass air systems shine and why every major car company has used it since the 90s. No more guessing. Now the engine knows exactly how much air is incoming and can adjust accordingly.

Jarrad

[Jarrad]

What I would like to see is a mass air conversion kit for a joyner. I know the SR2 sand rail at the shop with the 2.0l chery motor is a massair fly by wire system.

[Guest Lenny]

  On 1/20/2011 at 3:59 AM, Snowman6479 said:

What I would like to see is a mass air conversion kit for a joyner. I know the SR2 sand rail at the shop with the 2.0l chery motor is a massair fly by wire system.

You are right, it is completely user tunable just like Megasquirt. The Speed Density system is still pretty good. The ECU uses what is called a VE table. The VE is volumetric efficency and in Megasquirt, it will automatically diagnose inputs and adjust the VE tables for you as you drive. It looks at things like the EGO (exhause gas oxygen ratio, [requires a wide band EGO sensor]), air density, air temperature. RPM's, etc and sees what the engine is doing and then sort of backward engineers (adjusting the VE table) to change those paremeters until the two correctly match. The Ve table sort of mimics the mass air information. Volumetric efficency is the ratio of how much air the engine would take in if you turned it over slowly by hand and filled the cylinders with air with the same barometric pressure as outside of the engine (static air) compaired to the actual amount of air the engine really gets. This changes as the barometric pressure, air temp, engine temp and RPMs, etc. change. The VE table (in Megasquirt, it's a 12x12 table) sets a value in percent of the actual air to static air. Once the Ve table is correct then you can tune the puse and timing values tables(also 12x12). It's a little bit of a back and forth thing until you get it right. The mass density I beleive omits the VE table. However when the VE table is correct, the two systems should be close to the same in outcome.

I know Jarrad, you probably already know all of this. I explained it for those who don't.

Lenny

[Mopartist]

Wow; you do know your stuff Lenny!

[ricksrb]

  On 1/20/2011 at 3:30 PM, Lenny said:

You are right, it is completely user tunable just like Megasquirt. The Speed Density system is still pretty good. The ECU uses what is called a VE table. The VE is volumetric efficency and in Megasquirt, it will automatically diagnose inputs and adjust the VE tables for you as you drive. It looks at things like the EGO (exhause gas oxygen ratio, [requires a wide band EGO sensor]), air density, air temperature. RPM's, etc and sees what the engine is doing and then sort of backward engineers (adjusting the VE table) to change those paremeters until the two correctly match. The Ve table sort of mimics the mass air information. Volumetric efficency is the ratio of how much air the engine would take in if you turned it over slowly by hand and filled the cylinders with air with the same barometric pressure as outside of the engine (static air) compaired to the actual amount of air the engine really gets. This changes as the barometric pressure, air temp, engine temp and RPMs, etc. change. The VE table (in Megasquirt, it's a 12x12 table) sets a value in percent of the actual air to static air. Once the Ve table is correct then you can tune the puse and timing values tables(also 12x12). It's a little bit of a back and forth thing until you get it right. The mass density I beleive omits the VE table. However when the VE table is correct, the two systems should be close to the same in outcome.

I know Jarrad, you probably already know all of this. I explained it for those who don't.

Lenny

Lenny, now explain it in english (LOL)

[Jarrad]

He did. It is a complicated system without any knowlage, but it still a hard thing to comprehend sometimes. I myself have been lost numerous times. But like he said if you can get it all working correctly it works great, but say if we add displacement on a sd system you have to rework the be table, where as a mass air system will work it's self out. The both have thier pros and cons and for a racing application the sd system shines, where a mass air system is geared more for the average Joe

[ricksrb]

  On 1/20/2011 at 5:08 PM, Snowman6479 said:

He did. It is a complicated system without any knowlage, but it still a hard thing to comprehend sometimes. I myself have been lost numerous times. But like he said if you can get it all working correctly it works great, but say if we add displacement on a sd system you have to rework the be table, where as a mass air system will work it's self out. The both have thier pros and cons and for a racing application the sd system shines, where a mass air system is geared more for the average Joe

Really,thanks

[Jarrad]

Not sure if that came out wrong or what, I was not trying to sound condescending or anything but that is about the simplest terms he could have put them in

[Jarrad]

Not sure if that came out wrong or what, I was not trying to sound condescending or anything but that is about the simplest terms he could have put them in

[Scott Cerny]

We have a 2009 joyner renagade..............we isolated it to be ecu problem,we ordered new from e-bay.............installed and now engine won't  even fire..........question: do we have to send somewhere to have programmed??? any suggestions appreciated

Thanks

Scotty