Fuel Controller

[ricksrb]

Is there someway you can quantify? Did anyone do a comparison like I could only make it up 3/4 of the way up the hill and now I can make it all the way. Before my 1/8 mile time & speed were, now they are? Something other than subjective! Only thing I have heard for sure is you are burning more fuel, almost twice as much.

Thanks,

rocmoc n AZ/CA

rocmoc,

Only had mine out once with the controller on.Lenny had an earlier post as a way to compare so i will try to do something along his suggestion next time out.

[dpostma]

Just wondering, has anyone checked the spark plugs after a hard work out? That would tell us if it is running overly rich and just wasing fuel.

Dick

[ricksrb]

Just wondering, has anyone checked the spark plugs after a hard work out? That would tell us if it is running overly rich and just wasing fuel.

Dick

Nope, not i.Maybe after next trip.

[Guest Lenny]

Just wondering, has anyone checked the spark plugs after a hard work out? That would tell us if it is running overly rich and just wasing fuel.

Dick

To get a total clean burning mixtrure of fuel to air the ratio needs to be 14.7:1 (stoichiometric). For best power it wants to be in the 11-12:1 area. This controller is obviously doing a good job but it's not the same as having a stand alone aftermarket computer. My computer has 256 different settings for it's VE table. That is 256 settings for 256 different engine running conditions. Then it has another 256 different settings for the Air fuel ratio. Then the same for timing. It also has several settings for acceleration, decelleration, startup, afterstart, warmup and others. I'm not saying that Silver bullets computer isn't good but just remember it has much less control, allbiet fine tuning, and as a result it's not likely that each setting cell is set to it's optium. Thus you will get some over rich areas. This isn't a problem but it will use more fuel. Keep in mind that the Trooper engine was originally set up for emmisions and fuel economy. You will give that up for more preformance. I'm using an aftermarket computer (Megasquirt) and I can tune to a much finer level but I too still usu a lot more fuel. For the price of his computer, it's a win win situation. If you keep your foot out of it, the fuel economy will go up a lot.

Lenny

[ricksrb]

To get a total clean burning mixtrure of fuel to air the ratio needs to be 14.7:1 (stoichiometric). For best power it wants to be in the 11-12:1 area. This controller is obviously doing a good job but it's not the same as having a stand alone aftermarket computer. My computer has 256 different settings for it's VE table. That is 256 settings for 256 different engine running conditions. Then it has another 256 different settings for the Air fuel ratio. Then the same for timing. It also has several settings for acceleration, decelleration, startup, afterstart, warmup and others. I'm not saying that Silver bullets computer isn't good but just remember it has much less control, allbiet fine tuning, and as a result it's not likely that each setting cell is set to it's optium. Thus you will get some over rich areas. This isn't a problem but it will use more fuel. Keep in mind that the Trooper engine was originally set up for emmisions and fuel economy. You will give that up for more preformance. I'm using an aftermarket computer (Megasquirt) and I can tune to a much finer level but I too still usu a lot more fuel. For the price of his computer, it's a win win situation. If you keep your foot out of it, the fuel economy will go up a lot.

Lenny

There was just a loud whooooooosh as all that went over my head(LOL).As said earlier i have only had it out once with the controller on it,didnt even try changing the settings.Next time out i hope to try as you suggested before about comparrison with and without it.For the type of driving i do and for the money it seems to do fine.Wish i had your knowledge and maybe try what your doing.

[Guest Lenny]

There was just a loud whooooooosh as all that went over my head(LOL).As said earlier i have only had it out once with the controller on it,didnt even try changing the settings.Next time out i hope to try as you suggested before about comparrison with and without it.For the type of driving i do and for the money it seems to do fine.Wish i had your knowledge and maybe try what your doing.

Your computer makes much more sense then what I've have done. I have always been challenged by changing things to see just how good I could make and improve them. Made my living developing and introducing products into the industrial and commerical markets that were a big advancement over what was currently available. Developed products all my life. Anyway to do what I'm doing, you will soon call your Trooper a money pit as my wife, Jeanne does. for example, I have up to now bought about 15 pairs of shock springs in the effort to get the perfect suspension. That is well over $1000 in springs but my suspension is real nice and maybe can be yet improved in the front a bit. A lot of the springs are now on ebay to get my money back. When I'm done, others won't have to go through the development but just copy what I have done. I will be posting the complete breakdown of all changes, shocks and springs used. People have good reason to call me a little crazy.

Lenny

[ricksrb]

Your computer makes much more sense then what I've have done. I have always been challenged by changing things to see just how good I could make and improve them. Made my living developing and introducing products into the industrial and commerical markets that were a big advancement over what was currently available. Developed products all my life. Anyway to do what I'm doing, you will soon call your Trooper a money pit as my wife, Jeanne does. for example, I have up to now bought about 15 pairs of shock springs in the effort to get the perfect suspension. That is well over $1000 in springs but my suspension is real nice and maybe can be yet improved in the front a bit. A lot of the springs are now on ebay to get my money back. When I'm done, others won't have to go through the development but just copy what I have done. I will be posting the complete breakdown of all changes, shocks and springs used. People have good reason to call me a little crazy.

Lenny

nothing crazy about it.If thats what you enjoy doing and obviously have the knowledge to do so nothing at all wrong with it.Keeps the mind busy.

[Quig]

nothing crazy about it.If thats what you enjoy doing and obviously have the knowledge to do so nothing at all wrong with it.Keeps the mind busy.

Ssssssswwwoooooooooossssshhhhhhhh just went over Quigs head tooooooo! But that doesn't take much!! Shut it !!! Rick!! lol,,,

[rocmoc]

Lenny's computer has a lot of options and Silverbullet's doesn't. The options let you optimize the horsepower and/or torque and/or clean emissions and/or fuel mileage and more. The more options, the more choices. But the more options also requires more equipment & knowledge. Also can be more temperamental. I'm a big believer in the KISS principle, Keep It Simple Stupid when possible.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[2scoops]

Just wondering, has anyone checked the spark plugs after a hard work out? That would tell us if it is running overly rich and just wasing fuel.

Dick

I am not a timing/fuel mixture/air ratio guru, but it seems the extra torque developed at low end by this controller is due to the extra gas being pumped in the cylinder. Take that away and you lose the torque gained from using this fuel controller. It is a fair trade off to me.

I can't quantify the difference this controller makes, but I didn't notice much of a difference in acceleration. It was all low end. In Moab, the first day out my left foot instinctively kept reaching for the clutch when I would come up to an obstical. In the past I had two options: get some momentum and overtake the obstical, or slowly hit it and manipulate the clutch and gas to get over it. By the middle of the first day in Moab with the fuel controller, I started to get acustommed to it. I found I could hit an obstical slowly, then just use all gas pedal to get over it. It was very similar to an automatic.

I was really worried that I had purchased to big & heavy of a tire (30" 540 Dominators) and that I might regret the power & torque loss. When the tires arrived at my door, they were way heavier than I anticipated. After the Moab trip, well,I will never go to anything smaller--they were awesome! Made my buddys RZR S look like a remote control car. I attribute this all to the fuel controller.

[MauyThai1]

Silverbullet

We are blowing out our controller to the 1 - 25 members.We do have about 50 units.The price will be 185.00.Set up is real easy .Any questions call

Rick

928 344 2117

We will have our camshafts in a few more weeks.They are working on low end toqure They sent us a set and they worked vary good.Toqure started in at about 2600 RPM and pulled strong.We are going to get a better grind so toqure comes in around 1800 RPM he said no problem.

Thanks Rick

Will it plug in and work with a Turbo, or will it require a lot of tuning. Im also very interested in the cam's when will they be ready.

[2scoops]

My driveway is a 20% incline and my trooper idles up it at 900 rpm with the 30" 540 dominator tires. The tires are also about 15-20lbs heavier a piece than the stockers. My trooper needed some pedal input to climb the driveway before with the 27" stock tires. In Moab, there were obsticals I would normally have to manupulate the clutch to get over. With the fuel controller I was able to let my left foot take a nap & just used the gas pedal. My fuel consumption did go up about 30-40%.

Just a quick update. I took the Trooper around the neighborhood ,and when I came back I decided to watch the RPM gauge again while it crawled up my driveway (20-23% incline). It actually dropped as low as 500 RPM but then began to pick up to 700-800 rpm as it crawled up in 1st gear. No pedal input necessary.

Banjow Minnow is going to try and find a similar grade hill and see what would happen with his stock set up if he attempted to idle up it. If it stalls out, it would give everyone a little more tangible data on the fuel controller.

[dedub]

Just a quick update. I took the Trooper around the neighborhood ,and when I came back I decided to watch the RPM gauge again while it crawled up my driveway (20-23% incline). It actually dropped as low as 500 RPM but then began to pick up to 700-800 rpm as it crawled up in 1st gear. No pedal input necessary.

Banjow Minnow is going to try and find a similar grade hill and see what would happen with his stock set up if he attempted to idle up it. If it stalls out, it would give everyone a little more tangible data on the fuel controller.

[dedub]

take ground wire off that is stock an then try it. dedub

[silverbullet]

Silverbullet

First thing to do is compression test.Then pull the plugs and replace them with NGK BKR7E-11 or NGKR7Z-11.Make sure you hook up vacuum line from regulator to small vacuum line on the intake use a tee fitting.Set fuel pressure to about 55 psi.These are the things we are finding out as we go.

Thanks

Rick

[dedub]

how much torque did you get with new cams rick ? can they do grind for superchager or turbo ? dedub

[Tony]

Silverbullet

First thing to do is compression test.Then pull the plugs and replace them with NGK BKR7E-11 or NGKR7Z-11.Make sure you hook up vacuum line from regulator to small vacuum line on the intake use a tee fitting.Set fuel pressure to about 55 psi.These are the things we are finding out as we go.

Thanks

Rick

Silverbullet can you please go into a little more detail here?

Is this for all troopers? stock or modified? You meant the fuel pressure regulator? What kind of difference are you seeing with the plugs?

I have the programmer on the way and I wanna have this beast working the best I can. I'm not quite getting the vacuum line but maybe it will make more sense if I was looking right at it.

[Guest Lenny]

Silverbullet can you please go into a little more detail here?

Is this for all troopers? stock or modified? You meant the fuel pressure regulator? What kind of difference are you seeing with the plugs?

I have the programmer on the way and I wanna have this beast working the best I can. I'm not quite getting the vacuum line but maybe it will make more sense if I was looking right at it.

REGULATOR VACUUM LINE

The regulator has a port coming out the side of the top portion, just below where the adjustment bolt is. If you run a piece of tubing from this to the intake plentum (The aluminum piece with the 4 inlet tubes going to the head) it effects the fuel pressure. When you push on the throttle, the engine wants more fuel. Also when you push the throttle, the engine produces less of a vacume in the plentum which allows the fuel regulator to set to a higher fuel pressure. Probably only a few pounds but because of it the engine gets a bit more fuel. The spring in the regulator pushed against a diaphram that restricts the flow of fuel. The fuel pump must push the fuel hard enough to overcome the spring pressure and thus run at a certain pressure. As you tighten down on the spring, the fuel pressure increases. When a vacume is applied to the spring chamber in the regulator, it counteracts the spring and thus redusing its pressure on the diaphram lowering the fuel pressure for idle..The Silverbullet computer is going to be programed to give the engine more fuel (a lower air to fuel ratio). By hooking this up, you are helping the engine to be able to get that extra fuel. If it's already getting enough fuel, the computer simply adjust the injector pulse width to compensate for the higher pressure fuel. The Trooper uses a narrow band oxygen sensor which only lets the computer make crude air/fuel adjustments. You would need to have a wide band sensor to get finer adjustment but the trooper isn't set up for that. Possibly, Silverbullet could have a modified computer that would use a wide band sensor but that would require reprograming the computer. He may or may not be able to do that. But, then you would have to spend a couple of hundred $s to change out the sensor circuit to utilize it. You could raise the fuel pressure by adjusting the regulator (screwing the bolt down tighter against the spring) but that would raise the pressure for all engine conditions. The computer may or may not be set up to handle that.

Kinarfi, what do you think about starting a pinned thread that is titled something like. "Understanding Your Trooper, Technetical Issues" and pin this type of explanitory help there. There has been and there will continue to be a lot of explanitory stuff on this fourm that can help educate forum members that need some clearing up on various things.

Lenny

[Kinarfi]

REGULATOR VACUUM LINE

The regulator has a port coming out the side of the top portion, just below where the adjustment bolt is. If you run a piece of tubing from this to the intake plentum (The aluminum piece with the 4 inlet tubes going to the head) it effects the fuel pressure. When you push on the throttle, the engine wants more fuel. Also when you push the throttle, the engine produces a vacume in the plentum (non boosted engines) which pulls the fuel regulator to a higher fuel pressure. Probably only a few pounds but because of it the engine gets a bit more fuel. The Silverbullet computer is going to be programed to give the engine more fuel (a lower air to fuel ratio). By hooking this up, you are helping the engine to be able to get a that extra fuel. If it's already getting enough fuel, the computer simply adjust the injector pulse width to compensate for the higher pressure fuel. The Trooper uses a narrow band oxygen sensor which only lets the computer make crude air/fuel adjustments. You would need to have a wide band sensor to get finer adjustment but the trooper isn't set up for that. Possibly, Silverbullet could have a modified computer that would use a wide band sensor but that would require reprograming the computer. He may or may not be able to do that. But, then you would have to spend a couple of hundred $s to change out the sensor circuit to utilize it. You could raise the fuel pressure by adjusting the regulator, but that would raise the pressure for all engine conditions. The computer may or may not be set up to handle that.

Kinarfi, what do you think about starting a pinned thread that is titled something like. "Understanding Your Trooper, Technetical Issues" and pin this type of explanitory help there. There has been and there will continue to be a lot of explanitory stuff on this fourm that can help educate forum members that need some clearing up on various things.

Lenny

Sure, will get it later to day.

query: the engine is always producing a vacuum in the intake manifold, when you step on the throttle, the butterfly open and the vacuum diminishes, since the vacuum (if hooked up) would be aiding the spring which is holding the pressure lower, when you open the butterfly and the vacuum diminishes and no longer aids the spring, the pressure rises and thus, more fuel. ----CORRECT?-----

[Guest Lenny]

Sure, will get it later to day.

query: the engine is always producing a vacuum in the intake manifold, when you step on the throttle, the butterfly open and the vacuum diminishes, since the vacuum (if hooked up) would be aiding the spring which is holding the pressure lower, when you open the butterfly and the vacuum diminishes and no longer aids the spring, the pressure rises and thus, more fuel. ----CORRECT?-----

Thanks for bringing that up. I re-read my post and see that it was sort of misleading and confusing. I edited it to make more sence. You are correct in that when at idle the vacume is highest or when the motor is reving and you let up on the throttle. The vacume in the regulator helps reduce the amount of fuel that flows by lowering the pressure. The minute you hit the throttle the pressure raises. Next time I'll proof read it before posting. Usually do but didn't this time. Something came up so I just ran with it. Sorry.

Lenny

[ricksrb]

Thanks for bringing that up. I re-read my post and see that it was sort of misleading and confusing. I edited it to make more sence. You are correct in that when at idle the vacume is highest or when the motor is reving and you let up on the throttle. The vacume in the regulator helps reduce the amount of fuel that flows by lowering the pressure. The minute you hit the throttle the pressure raises. Next time I'll proof read it before posting. Usually do but didn't this time. Something came up so I just ran with it. Sorry.

Lenny

I for some reason thought vacuum was at "lowest" during idle,thus when reving vacuum increased and would able regulator to open or increase fuel pressure.I read a long time ago on another forum about hooking the hose up to the regulator but never tried it.

[Banjo Minnow]

My trooper didn't have the clear hose on the vacuum side of the regulator. Should it be there?

Second, what settings are you guys finding the best on the controller. I haven't tested mine yet, but i am not sure what mode and what "stage 1-8" is going to be best. I am going to want more power at low rpm mostly in first to do rock crawling. As far as i could tell, the controller had one green led lit at idle. Is this normal.

[dedub]

when i did the testing i had to unhook the line off the regulator because with the fuel per.55# when i let out of fuel the per. get higher push past injectors an over fuel it .you guys do what works for you. thanks dedub

[ricksrb]

My trooper didn't have the clear hose on the vacuum side of the regulator. Should it be there?

Second, what settings are you guys finding the best on the controller. I haven't tested mine yet, but i am not sure what mode and what "stage 1-8" is going to be best. I am going to want more power at low rpm mostly in first to do rock crawling. As far as i could tell, the controller had one green led lit at idle. Is this normal.

As far as i know they did not come with the vacuum hose from the regulator to the intake.Mine came with the fitting on the regulator pluged off.I have only had mine out twice since installing the regulator and have not yet changed the settings.

[Banjo Minnow]

My fuel pressure is running at 60 psi on the gauge. Should I lower it and if so how?

[Guest Lenny]

My fuel pressure is running at 60 psi on the gauge. Should I lower it and if so how?

You probably want about 45-50 but it all depends on how it's running. You may be running a bit on the rich side but then again being on the rich side will produce more power provided it's not too rich.

Lenny

[ERV JR]

Silverbullet

First thing to do is compression test.Then pull the plugs and replace them with NGK BKR7E-11 or NGKR7Z-11.Make sure you hook up vacuum line from regulator to small vacuum line on the intake use a tee fitting.Set fuel pressure to about 55 psi.These are the things we are finding out as we go.

Thanks

Rick

the port on the regulator is normally for boost ref , so when it see's in increase in pressure/boost then fuel pressure is increased 1:1 . why are you applying vac to the port ?

[Guest Lenny]

the port on the regulator is normally for boost ref , so when it see's in increase in pressure/boost then fuel pressure is increased 1:1 . why are you applying vac to the port ?

It releives the spring that keeps the pressure down.

Lenny

[ERV JR]

It releives the spring that keeps the pressure down.

Lenny

So they are using it to lean the mixture out !. Ok I have always used it in boosted app.s for enrichenment . Most stuff I deal with is blow thru carb and roots blow stuff when using a boost ref port . Never done anything in a n/a app

[dedub]

So they are using it to lean the mixture out !. Ok I have always used it in boosted app.s for enrichenment . Most stuff I deal with is blow thru carb and roots blow stuff when using a boost ref port . Never done anything in a n/a app

it works both ways i put hose on it with it running blow in it pres. goes up . pull vac.on it it goes down. dedub good luck.