Joyner USA Inc

[brostar]

OK, here are the contacts for Joyner USA Inc

Kris Able aka Kable on UTV Boards/ [email protected]

Garth Livermore aka joynergarth / [email protected]

Ken Morris aka Changzhou Joyner / [email protected]

The new website is delayed slightly, but should be up soon. The site will be/ www.joynervehicles.com

You can ask them here too, so everybody gets the knowledge.

Kinarfi, maybe make this a Pinned thread ?

Cheers Mike

[MTS]

OK, here are the contacts for Joyner USA Inc

Kris Able aka Kable on UTV Boards/ [email protected]

Garth Livermore aka joynergarth / [email protected]

Ken Morris aka Changzhou Joyner / [email protected]

The new website is delayed slightly, but should be up soon. The site will be/ www.joynervehicles.com

You can ask them here too, so everybody gets the knowledge.

Kinarfi, maybe make this a Pinned thread ?

Cheers Mike

Thanks Brostar!

[2scoops]

OK, here are the contacts for Joyner USA Inc

Kris Able aka Kable on UTV Boards/ [email protected]

Garth Livermore aka joynergarth / [email protected]

Ken Morris aka Changzhou Joyner / [email protected]

The new website is delayed slightly, but should be up soon. The site will be/ www.joynervehicles.com

You can ask them here too, so everybody gets the knowledge.

Kinarfi, maybe make this a Pinned thread ?

Cheers Mike

I have to be honest, I am getting a little confused on the big picture of Joyner. Here is how I understand it, but I may be way off:

Joyner factories in China are still building vehicles and parts, but there is no major Joyner Importer in the US; however, other countries are experiencing no problems?

Are the gentlemen listed above trying to get it going again? If so, to what extent? Small importer or large (similar to what it once was)?

If it does get going again, there needs to be some serious quality assurance over in China making sure things are being done right. In the last three years we have identified nearly every single issue which can fault a Joyner. If ALL of these items were fixed they would rival anything out there.

All of my friends that have checked mine out say they would rather have it than any other UTV (price being considered of course). Then, I explain the inherant issues with it...I almost feel like I am talking them out of buying one. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my machine, but I got it for a very good price, so I feel all of the fabrication and uprades I have done are justifiable. If I paid sticker price I would feel very different. If 90% of the issues are fixed with new models it would be a steal @ $12k.

[Guest Lenny]

I have to be honest, I am getting a little confused on the big picture of Joyner. Here is how I understand it, but I may be way off:

Joyner factories in China are still building vehicles and parts, but there is no major Joyner Importer in the US; however, other countries are experiencing no problems?

Are the gentlemen listed above trying to get it going again? If so, to what extent? Small importer or large (similar to what it once was)?

If it does get going again, there needs to be some serious quality assurance over in China making sure things are being done right. In the last three years we have identified nearly every single issue which can fault a Joyner. If ALL of these items were fixed they would rival anything out there.

All of my friends that have checked mine out say they would rather have it than any other UTV (price being considered of course). Then, I explain the inherant issues with it...I almost feel like I am talking them out of buying one. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my machine, but I got it for a very good price, so I feel all of the fabrication and uprades I have done are justifiable. If I paid sticker price I would feel very different. If 90% of the issues are fixed with new models it would be a steal @ $12k.

I agree. I figure Joyner has one more chance and that is only because the unit is a great concept. It was poorly executed and unless it is produced correctly it won't make it. If they are serious and fix the many poor design and poor workmanship issues it could and would be a top contender in the market. Lets hope they get it right on this their last chance. I'm confident they will.

Lenny

[rocmoc]

Sorry to say, I would not recommend a Joyner to any of my friends. AND if could, I would sale mine. Anyone have $11,000 for a greatly modified Trooper and an entirely second one less an engine for parts or project. Just contact me! For an easy cash sale I would even throw in a trailer for the Trooper.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[ricksrb]

Sorry to say, I would not recommend a Joyner to any of my friends. AND if could, I would sale mine. Anyone have $11,000 for a greatly modified Trooper and an entirely second one less an engine for parts or project. Just contact me! For an easy cash sale I would even throw in a trailer for the Trooper.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

How much would you knock off the price if i wanted it back to stock???(LOL)

[brostar]

2scoops, I’ll add to your post to answer your questions as best I can.

I have to be honest, I am getting a little confused on the big picture of Joyner. Here is how I understand it, but I may be way off:

Joyner factories in China are still building vehicles and parts, but there is no major Joyner Importer in the US; however, other countries are experiencing no problems?

That is correct.

Are the gentlemen listed above trying to get it going again? If so, to what extent? Small importer or large (similar to what it once was)?

Correct and all the hard work is done. The most important thing is parts and they will appear first with the new models. Joyner will have to regain lost dealers thanks to JMC not importing stock. Some dealers have been trading through these difficult times, some have disappeared. It’s Joyner USA’s intention to rebuild their dealership in North America and gain more of the market share they enjoyed before. They have one really good tool to make this happen, quality and plenty of it.

If it does get going again, there needs to be some serious quality assurance over in China making sure things are being done right. In the last three years we have identified nearly every single issue which can fault a Joyner. If ALL of these items were fixed they would rival anything out there.

It has already got going, the parts and new 2011 models will make an appearance very soon, some containers are have already arrived and others are on the water as we speak. There is no such thing as stopping part failure, but you can reduce the risk of that happening. This comes through solid engineering, using quality materials, manufacturing the correct way and testing. How has Changzhou Joyner managed to achieve this in such a sort time? It was time it's self and they had plenty of it. Think about it, about 80% of Joyner’s turnover was generated in North America, take that away and you have time. They made use of this extra time and turned one big negative into a fantastic positive saturation. There will be new easy to follow manuals released soon too that has had the part numbers revamped to a better standard. I have a long list of improvements in front of me, but not sure if I can release this yet or not, but it’s fair to say that it is very impressive.

All of my friends that have checked mine out say they would rather have it than any other UTV (price being considered of course). Then, I explain the inherant issues with it...I almost feel like I am talking them out of buying one. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my machine, but I got it for a very good price, so I feel all of the fabrication and uprades I have done are justifiable. If I paid sticker price I would feel very different. If 90% of the issues are fixed with new models it would be a steal @ $12k.

Tell them to buy new. A 2011 Trooper will have a MSRP of USD$11,999.99 and a Renegade R2 USD$9,999.99. These are night and day compared to my 2008 T2 I have for my own use.

Cheers Mike.

[rocmoc]

How much would you knock off the price if i wanted it back to stock???(LOL)

LOL, why would you want me to make it preform like a stocker. Only made reasonable improvements that are easy to maintain. My goal is to make things last as I get older because this sh*t isn't getting easier as I get older. This is my personal goal in / with everything I do now. No grass in the yard, only plants that need trimming every few years, 50 year roof & more. Planning ahead. Used the same mine-set with my Trooper.

Now, I can deliver right after I get your deposit via Paypal. Is it a deal? LOL!

If not my goal is 100,000 km @ 100 years old!

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[ricksrb]

LOL, why would you want me to make it preform like a stocker. Only made reasonable improvements that are easy to maintain. My goal is to make things last as I get older because this sh*t isn't getting easier as I get older. This is my personal goal in / with everything I do now. No grass in the yard, only plants that need trimming every few years, 50 year roof & more. Planning ahead. Used the same mine-set with my Trooper.

Now, I can deliver right after I get your deposit via Paypal. Is it a deal? LOL!

If not my goal is 100,000 km @ 100 years old!

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

I figured if you went back to stock i could pick it up for under 7k and then you would sell the mods on ebay for about 2 or 3k and i would save a thousand or two.Good thinking huh???(LOL)

I would send a deposit but then i would be blamed for you not reaching your goal...especially the @100 years old part of it.(LOL)

[plumber]

I would have to agreed with rocmoc I would not recommend a Joyner to any of my friends . Around here the dealers don't even want it on a trade.

[brostar]

rocmoc & plumber, Ill have to be honest here and say if I knew just how much trouble the first generation Trooper would give us all back in 2007/08, I would of become a Yamaha dealer or something. Im glad I didnt, just look at how many Rhino owners have died, lost a limb or written off their UTVs since then.

Look, the thing is there would not be to many new vehicles that are perfect in every way from day one and the Rhino is still horrible after many improvements. Its all about how they evolve. With cars, some start off as crap and dont really improve much. I like to think the Trooper started off as really good concept (which is why you own a Trooper in the 1st place) that needed refining. As you will soon see, the 2011 is refined so please dont group every Joyner the same way until you feel expert enough to say so. Joyner Buggies are a premium brand, they hardly fit the bill of no recommendation and thats before Ken Morriss input. A 2011 Trooper and Renegade is in a different league altogether from a 2008 model.

To rephrase what rocmoc and plumber just said, they would not recommend a 2008- 2009 Trooper. What I say is, I highly recommend a 2011 Trooper to any one, or my name is mud.

Heres a question, just how did a 57 Bel Air get to be so good? Through evolution of course. It would not of got to that stage if failures through previous other models stopped the 57 Bel Air from being in production. Or to put it another way, the 57 Bel Air arrived out of the blue with no prior model or or no other Chevy car, just how good would it of been. It would be shite. (Bare in mind, we are talking a 1957 car)

At the risk of causing fiction between myself and two follow members who I think of as friends(all be it on-line) pull your bloody heads in and re-phrase what you both have said. Surly all you both can say is a pre 2011 Trooper should be off your shopping list at best and I will add, there is no fool like an old fool. Maybe I wont say that about old fools, so will take that back. The other thing is rocmoc and plumber, just look at the passion for the Trooper right here on UTV Boards, thats real and I see plenty from both of you two too.

Cheers Mike

[rocmoc]

Brostar,

Your not causing any fiction with me, but I will re-phase.

I would not buy ANY year Joyner at this point including the 2011. Burn me once shame on you, burn me twice shame on me.

Customer support, quality, RESALE VALVE, parts availability, aftermarket vendors & drive-ability are sub-standard.

I pass this subjective judgement with comparison of my other Honda, Suzuki & Yamaha toys. Currently Joyner isn't even holding its own in the UTV market like the Datsun did when it first came out from Japan in the auto market. Later as their quality improved they had to re-brand to Nissan to be able to compete in the market place. Joyner has yet been able to make it even to the Datsun stage.

Now, I hope I have not rubbed you wrong as this is IMHO! I am the type of person who will sing praises of good as well as bad. The machine can preform but for how long & at what expense (parts availability, cost & lack of parts pricing competition).

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[rocmoc]

I have to add a response to another Topic here as it fits and I did not want to hi-jack the other topic.

I HAVE NOT had the problems with my Trooper as most the others. My view / opinion is a collection of my experiences and a comparison to other products.

I am not one easily turned negative on a product or situation but I will not go down with the ship either. It took a lot to get me to this point and it was not me who dropped the ball, not my fault!

To give you an example of my support of a brand, I still have my 1983 Suzuki I raced and will NEVER sale it. It is an incredibility product.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[2scoops]

2scoops, I’ll add to your post to answer your questions as best I can.

I have to be honest, I am getting a little confused on the big picture of Joyner. Here is how I understand it, but I may be way off:

Joyner factories in China are still building vehicles and parts, but there is no major Joyner Importer in the US; however, other countries are experiencing no problems?

That is correct.

Are the gentlemen listed above trying to get it going again? If so, to what extent? Small importer or large (similar to what it once was)?

Correct and all the hard work is done. The most important thing is parts and they will appear first with the new models. Joyner will have to regain lost dealers thanks to JMC not importing stock. Some dealers have been trading through these difficult times, some have disappeared. It’s Joyner USA’s intention to rebuild their dealership in North America and gain more of the market share they enjoyed before. They have one really good tool to make this happen, quality and plenty of it.

If it does get going again, there needs to be some serious quality assurance over in China making sure things are being done right. In the last three years we have identified nearly every single issue which can fault a Joyner. If ALL of these items were fixed they would rival anything out there.

It has already got going, the parts and new 2011 models will make an appearance very soon, some containers are have already arrived and others are on the water as we speak. There is no such thing as stopping part failure, but you can reduce the risk of that happening. This comes through solid engineering, using quality materials, manufacturing the correct way and testing. How has Changzhou Joyner managed to achieve this in such a sort time? It was time it's self and they had plenty of it. Think about it, about 80% of Joyner’s turnover was generated in North America, take that away and you have time. They made use of this extra time and turned one big negative into a fantastic positive saturation. There will be new easy to follow manuals released soon too that has had the part numbers revamped to a better standard. I have a long list of improvements in front of me, but not sure if I can release this yet or not, but it’s fair to say that it is very impressive.

All of my friends that have checked mine out say they would rather have it than any other UTV (price being considered of course). Then, I explain the inherant issues with it...I almost feel like I am talking them out of buying one. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my machine, but I got it for a very good price, so I feel all of the fabrication and uprades I have done are justifiable. If I paid sticker price I would feel very different. If 90% of the issues are fixed with new models it would be a steal @ $12k.

Tell them to buy new. A 2011 Trooper will have a MSRP of USD$11,999.99 and a Renegade R2 USD$9,999.99. These are night and day compared to my 2008 T2 I have for my own use.

Cheers Mike.

Thanks to Mike for answering my questions and taking the time to communicate it so well. I think sometimes question marks get overlooked on posts if you even slightly stray off topic.

[brostar]

Not your fault at all roc, just don’t write off Joyner to soon. We are only weeks away from the new 2011 models and you are referring to 2008/09 Troopers.

You can always look at it like this rocmoc, if you, Lenny, Kinarfi, myself and most other members all brought a 2011 T2 with the billing I’m giving it, I don’t think we all would of meet each other, UTV Boards probably wouldn’t exist, Jeff & Lenny would be bored, I would be to busy to even look at the computer and you would be racing the thing somewhere. Our 08/09 T2's have multiple problems, we all know that. 09 T2’s are an improvement from the 08, a 2011 T2 is built how a Trooper should be.

Little things like gauge and back side dash protection, new ball joints & steering rod joints, all suspension bolts upgraded to 10.9 from 8.9 grade bolts to go with the new shock absorbers and all wiring improved including waterproof fuse boxes and connectors with colour code wiring tested by the supplier first. These are a few of the improvements I have in front of me now. Some of these new improved parts will be available straight away like a retrofit mechanical actuator(2WD-4WD Shift) for previous models.

My message is, “it is all about to get a whole lot better, not worse, not the same but better”. I wonder what the next generation of Joyner owners will say about their 2011 model in three years from now?

Cheers Mike.

[rocmoc]

The new 2011 Trooper owners will be saying, "Why can't I keep up with Kinafi, Lenny & rocmoc?"

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[brostar]

I think any UTV would have trouble keeping up with the three Musketeers and their pumped out Troopers.

Cheers Mike.

[ricksrb]

The new 2011 Trooper owners will be saying, "Why can't I keep up with Kinafi, Lenny & rocmoc?"

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

No they will be saying "There goes those old timers in their model T's"

[rocmoc]

How about, "I didn't know Dinosaurs could drive!"

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[ricksrb]

How about, "I didn't know Dinosaurs could drive!"

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

I might not be up there with the three of you with the trooper but i am with the age.Speaking of dinosaurs,whats up with the idea of the shirts?

[rocmoc]

Been bogged down with construction.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[Kinarfi]

The new 2011 Trooper owners will be saying, "Why can't I keep up with Kinafi, Lenny & rocmoc?"

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

I think any UTV would have trouble keeping up with the three Musketeers and their pumped out Troopers.

Cheers Mike.

No they will be saying "There goes those old timers in their model T's"

How about, "I didn't know Dinosaurs could drive!"

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

Are you trying to get a rise , first, no one should have much trouble keeping up with me, My engine is still stock and I don't get radical very often.

Second, I may qualify for senior discounts , but that just says I made to 55 with killing myself, although I came really, really close, twice, so far, but dinosaur? I'm retired because of injuries, not age.

Third, I'm working on my Honey Dearest Sweet Heart (a little buttering up here)(but all TRUE) to let me be a 2011 driver so I can start over with the modifications, I had so much fun the first time, I want to do it again.

Kinarfi

[rocmoc]

Well be really interesting to see want kind of trade-in a Joyner dealer will give you on a pre-2011 Trooper.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[plumber]

Well be really interesting to see want kind of trade-in a Joyner dealer will give you on a pre-2011 Trooper.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

1500.00

[silverbullet]

Silverbullet

Joyner is back and have made manny changes for the better.They have a hard road to get the whole thing together.But all the Troopers you know with the up grades will please every body.They will have parts when you need them.They will be faster & better to react if thear is a need. They should be up and running in 60 days or so.Parts first then cars.

This is the fact.I know all the guys that will be thear and they love thear Joyners to.

And when you want performance parts call me.

Cams are hear testing them out as we speak we came up with a new trick for even more low end toqure.Besides the cams!

[Quig]

I would like to thank Silverbullet for everything he has done for our joyners, and ""especially for me"",. Without him, & his crew, My trooper would be ?? well, not like a new machine!! between everything he did to my trooper, he also gave me leads & tips for other things. His major goal in life is to make the joyners run like they were supposed to, & better!! I've seen the hrs he puts in trying to figure things out, time at machinist,time on computer, talking on phone to co.s to make parts for him, so he can make our joyners great, like they should have been!! He is one of the oldest, longest running joyner dealers. Because of his commitment, along with few others on this forum,our old troopers can run better than new,,,,, Thanks Rick!! & you other members who have done great things,,,, I really enjoy my trooper!! Quig

[Guest Lenny]

We have had issues with our T2 just like others but we still like it and we still don't see anything out there that would suite our needs that we would trade-it in on. This forum has always been on the positive side of the Joyner products....no bashing here. But now I'm starting to see some negative creep in. We have some issues with our Joyners and maybe a few more then other brands but our Trooper is going places other brands won't even go. The Trooper is more stable, it would be difficult to run it over backwards, it's a stick/manual which we love over the automatic and in general we feel safer in it. I purchased the Trooper with my wife in mind because of her previous back injury...wanted something safe that would not roll over and would be sturdy around her if an accident should occur.

To start to talk about the pre 2011 models as if they are worthless or near so in the market does no good for the NEW in- coming distributor, dealers, people like Silverbullet that are working to keep the line viable and progressive and for us as owners. Every time someone makes negative comments about our units, our resale value goes down. Until the previous defunk distributor dumped on everyone, our resale values were ok. We don't need to be discouraged by starting to hear negative comments. After all this Joyner forum is at the forefront of the media representing the Joyner products and what we do and say here can have a positive or destructive effect on the future of Joyner products. We're anxious to see the new Joyner distributor do good because we all believe in the good concept and want parts available again. Yes, it needs attention in several areas but now the new distributor has the information to go forward with and it sounds like the 2011 models will be much better (but then again we can't expect perfect-none of the mfg. are perfect). It seems as if some have written off the 2011 Joyner before it hits US soil. I'm glad the new distributor group is taking the time required to make it better before introducing it back into the USA. I'm excited to see what they have done with the 2011.

Keep in mind that you would think that the big corps. should have their act together (like Ford, Chrysler, ect) but they screw up too. Our 1995 dodge 2500 diesel when new had a bad shimmy in front from too light of a stabilizer bar. We wouldn't even drive for fear of causing an accident. We had video of it showing the front wheels looking like they were literally about 2' wide they shook so much and this was at 45 mph. It was outrageous and control became almost non-existent. Despite bringing it to Dodge several times they kept telling me that nothing was wrong and didn't do anything. It wasn't until we threatened to send the video to 60 minutes that they immediately fixed it with parts that were already remade by Dodge to correct the problem. There was a point that we were very down on Dodge but we bought a new 2006 Dodge diesel after we sold the 1995 when 11 years old with 355,000 miles on it for good money.

Negative statements like junk, crap, I wouldn't buy one again, couldn't recommend to a friend or worthless on trade-in need to be kept to ourselves. I know that my Trooper is worth a lot less now because of the negative talk and what the prior defunk distributor did to us all. When someone tries to trade one in, all the dealer has to say is look at your own forum, the owners don't even stand by them. So how about we all keep our negative thoughts to ourselves and continue on to work and stand by each other to resolve problems and keep a solid sense of camaraderie between all of us. After all, isn't the Jamboree all about camaraderie, helping, sharing, getting to meet the other members, ect.?

I like to post on this forum because the individuals care, are helpful, and are positive (usually). For as long as I'm still alive, you will be seeing me driving around in my 2008 Trooper.

Lenny

[rocmoc]

Lenny,

I don't agree with you that everything should be presented as hunky dory. The NEW Joyner Company needs to know that we have been screwed around and are not stupid enough to accept more. They only have one choice and that is to do it right. We will see what direction they go in. THEY are in control of their future, not us! Most companies find it hard to survive when everything goes well. Joyner missed the good times in the USA economy and now they are going to try to make it in this financial market. Hope they have deep pockets as they are going to need them.

There are a lot of GREAT UTVs on the market. When I went to the UTV Rally in Moab, I was very impressed by the other products and you know I have been playing with this stuff for a long time. There are other choices.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[Guest Lenny]

Mike:

No, not saying to lie about the problems. The facts are already there for everyone to see on the forum about the different problems on these older units sold by the previous distributor. There was no one out there to help those owners and I can understand the frustration but it's time to move on.

But on the other hand, no reason to slam the new distributor before they even get their 2011 Joyner on US soil. Yes, the previous distributor has made the journey for the new distributor very, very hard but no reason to just write them off as not viable. I still wish them the best and I'm hoping they pull it off (wouldn't wish failure on anyone and I love to cheer on the underdog). I'm willing to stay open minded and see what they have to offer.

You have to admit that it will be nice knowing there will be parts available for the Joyner owners. The average owners are not as handy as we are at working through problems and fixing things. The forum has worked through the past years okay but everyone was really apprehensive when we first heard the news that the previous distributor was shutting down and the inventory was to be auctioned off at their AZ facility.

Yes, there are other nice units out there. Yes, there are other choices. But there isn't one unit out there that is problem free. That is the nature of the beast. Friends in our area have Rhino's and RZR's ...they are constantly bitching about "what has gone wrong now". Hey.... Fix It & Use It or .... Sell It & Move Onto Something Else.

I'm invested into a 2008 Trooper that is running great for me and I'll have many years of enjoyment from my T2. Do I wish things had turned out differently with my purchase? Do I wish there weren't the problems? Do I wish the previous distributor hadn't dumped on us leaving us without parts and support? Yes to all, but no use crying over it for the rest of my life or bitching about it (people get tired of that quickly and it's not good for your health).

Besides, Jeanne says the Trooper will be like my Scamp 5th Wheel Trailer pretty soon. The only thing left of the original scamp is the Fiberglass Shell and Windows...everything else period, was replaced. Your right that Joyner needs to understand that there are problems and that is evident on this forum. I just don't like taking the position that the older units are near worthless. I've got a lot of money into mine and it would take a lot for someone to buy it from me. Then again, mine doesn't have the problems anymore but it is still a 2008. Also there are a number of owners that have stated that they haven't had any problems. It depends a lot on how it is used and rather the more serious problems have been taken care of by those that have experienced the problems.

Hope your construction project is going smoothly.... I'm into many "mini" construction projects myself off my to do list.

Jeanne says to say HELLO to your better half!

Lenny

[rocmoc]

I will close my postings with this, " I want the New Joyner Company to be successful". The product is one of the BEST concept in the UTV market.

Passed the Hello on and one came back your away to Jeanne.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico