stock suspension adjusting?

[66fastcarss]

So got the trooper out for a shake down run yesterday. Everything worked great except I need some advice on suspension. Back was ok, but I think the front rebound is super stiff. It did fine over whoops and such, but when I would drive over rocks of all sizes at any speed or more abrupt bumps I would get a very harsh almost gunshot like noise(s), which I believe is the front suspension exploding back to full extension. I don't know if this was the shock or what was actually banging together. Every time it would happen it would send a small sharp jolt through the whole vehicle (we could feel it in the seat as well as hear it it was very loud). The collar on the coil over is about an inch from all the way to the top, so can't imagine the spring is too tight. Is there any other adjustment? Could there be too much nitrogen in the shock and can I check the pressure there with a regular tire gauge? If so what should it be? Any help or recommendations would be appreciated.

jeff

[2scoops]

  On 6/27/2011 at 5:52 PM, 66fastcarss said:

So got the trooper out for a shake down run yesterday. Everything worked great except I need some advice on suspension. Back was ok, but I think the front rebound is super stiff. It did fine over whoops and such, but when I would drive over rocks of all sizes at any speed or more abrupt bumps I would get a very harsh almost gunshot like noise(s), which I believe is the front suspension exploding back to full extension. I don't know if this was the shock or what was actually banging together. Every time it would happen it would send a small sharp jolt through the whole vehicle (we could feel it in the seat as well as hear it it was very loud). The collar on the coil over is about an inch from all the way to the top, so can't imagine the spring is too tight. Is there any other adjustment? Could there be too much nitrogen in the shock and can I check the pressure there with a regular tire gauge? If so what should it be? Any help or recommendations would be appreciated.

jeff

New shocks are your best option. The stock springs are very stiff, and you can't change the compression with out cutting the current shock open. They aren't meant to be rebuilt, but it can be done (see Lenny). If you don't mind loosing some ground clearance you can back off the preload collars and it will get softer.

If you plan to upgrade your shocks go to Steve at Makintrax. He has all of our measurements and can custom build you 4 bolt-in shocks for around $1500. The only other bolt in shocks out there are Kings @ $2600.

Also, by going to a custom shock you can gain some suspension travel.

[66fastcarss]

So is that metal smacking sound "NORMAL" for a stock set-up then and is it harmful to the components...i.e. is the shock going to wear out sooner or break some other piece? And what happens if you let out nitrogen out of the shocks...will that affect the rebound or will that just soften the compression?

I wouldn't mind new shocks either. Is that $1500 include the coilovers (shocks and springs) all the way around? After yesterday the wife might just allow me to pony up for new shocks Anything else and she would complain but if I can tell her the ride would be much better she might go for it.

Jeff

[Mopartist]

  On 6/27/2011 at 10:31 PM, 66fastcarss said:

So is that metal smacking sound "NORMAL" for a stock set-up then and is it harmful to the components...i.e. is the shock going to wear out sooner or break some other piece? And what happens if you let out nitrogen out of the shocks...will that affect the rebound or will that just soften the compression?

I wouldn't mind new shocks either. Is that $1500 include the coilovers (shocks and springs) all the way around? After yesterday the wife might just allow me to pony up for new shocks Anything else and she would complain but if I can tell her the ride would be much better she might go for it.

Jeff

I backed off the pre load almost all the way to the top on the front shocks. WAY better ride ! However; the metal to metal clashing is the shocks topping out after rebounding. Mine does it too dropping off a rock or ledge. Maybe limiting straps would help; I may try it.

[Guest Lenny]

  On 6/27/2011 at 5:52 PM, 66fastcarss said:

So got the trooper out for a shake down run yesterday. Everything worked great except I need some advice on suspension. Back was ok, but I think the front rebound is super stiff. It did fine over whoops and such, but when I would drive over rocks of all sizes at any speed or more abrupt bumps I would get a very harsh almost gunshot like noise(s), which I believe is the front suspension exploding back to full extension. I don't know if this was the shock or what was actually banging together. Every time it would happen it would send a small sharp jolt through the whole vehicle (we could feel it in the seat as well as hear it it was very loud). The collar on the coil over is about an inch from all the way to the top, so can't imagine the spring is too tight. Is there any other adjustment? Could there be too much nitrogen in the shock and can I check the pressure there with a regular tire gauge? If so what should it be? Any help or recommendations would be appreciated.

jeff

Check your rack and pinion steering. They are always very loose allowing the play in the steering and the rack to slop up and down which can make a lot of noise. There is a fix for it on Ebay. Do you have the stock shocks on the front or what do you have. If other, what springs and dampening settings are you running? There are a lot of things that can be loose on the front that can makie a lot of noise when going over rocks. See the pinned subjects at the top of the forum thread list for referance.

Lenny

[silverbullet]

silverbullet

Bilstein shocks testing is starting end of week.We have done a little testing and so far good results around shop and on the road.Some hard pack but no major testing.We are working on cam shafts for installation

instructions on cams

We need to go to the dunes for more testing over speed and rough areas out in the dunes.Have good travel but need limit straps.Giant reservoir for cool running.Dual rate springs in rear and linear in the front.

1850.00 set of 4 shocks.Completely bolt on.More testing will be done.Just so we are sure they work good in all conditions.A smooth ride for trail rideing but good on the rough stuff good handeling at high speeds.

We are in the115 degree temp now and working is hard to due

Thanks

Rick

.

[66fastcarss]

Mopartist--thanks for the input. I will back off the collars all the way before the next run and see what happens. I also thought of limiting straps as a solution.

Lenny--again appreciate your input. I have completely stock setup for suspension. Adjusting collars are down only about one inch from the top but as above will back them off some more. I will look into your steering box fix. Probably not a bad idea to do anyway and yes the steering is somewhat loose, but didn't think of that as the possible noise. Guess there is one way to find out .

Jeff

[rocmoc]

Springs are too stiff and the pre-load is too high. Lower tire air pressure helps. Backing off pre-load helps but you will give up some ground clearance. Banging noisy is the steering rack.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[Kinarfi]

  On 6/28/2011 at 2:50 PM, rocmoc said:

Springs are too stiff and the pre-load is too high. Lower tire air pressure helps. Backing off pre-load helps but you will give up some ground clearance. Banging noisy is the steering rack.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

I have Lenny's steering box top cover and I get that metal to metal slamming noise too & I think it's the stock shock, getting ready go for short ride up canyon so I may try something in the limit strap department as a test. I think I've already release the nitrogen charge and backed off the adjustment nuts as far as possible.

Kinarfi

[66fastcarss]

By the way, I still have the stock ITP Wanna-be tires on and will run them until I either can't stand them or they wear out. What tire pressure should I be running in them? I will order Lenny's steering box fix anyway and see if it makes a difference.

Jeff

[2scoops]

  On 6/28/2011 at 1:52 PM, 66fastcarss said:

Mopartist--thanks for the input. I will back off the collars all the way before the next run and see what happens. I also thought of limiting straps as a solution.

Lenny--again appreciate your input. I have completely stock setup for suspension. Adjusting collars are down only about one inch from the top but as above will back them off some more. I will look into your steering box fix. Probably not a bad idea to do anyway and yes the steering is somewhat loose, but didn't think of that as the possible noise. Guess there is one way to find out .

Jeff

What am I chopped liver? No need for thanks I will help you anyways . After upgrading my shocks 90% of the noises went away. All I hear now is some sqeeking in my pedal pivots and the fiberglass panels rubbing as the frame twists. You might want to check and see if your rod ends on your A-arms aren't contacting the brackets they are bolted to in at full compression/droop. They will twist side to side as the suspension compresses/extends. Jack it up and at full droop make sure you have about 1/8 th inch of clearance between the rod ends & their respective brackets.

Lastly, the steering upgrade kit is a must do until someone finds a better steering box that will mod-in.

[Mopartist]

I just thought of something else. The stock "Far East" tires with 30 psi in them was like driving a Flintstone car. You hear and feel EVERY bump. I upgraded my tires to Maxxis BigHorn 2.0 with about 8 psi in them. That also contributed to a softer ride. Plus it floats on dunes now where it was digging trenches in the sand before.

[ricksrb]

  On 6/28/2011 at 4:01 PM, 2scoops said:

What am I chopped liver? No need for thanks I will help you anyways . After upgrading my shocks 90% of the noises went away. All I hear now is some sqeeking in my pedal pivots and the fiberglass panels rubbing as the frame twists. You might want to check and see if your rod ends on your A-arms aren't contacting the brackets they are bolted to in at full compression/droop. They will twist side to side as the suspension compresses/extends. Jack it up and at full droop make sure you have about 1/8 th inch of clearance between the rod ends & their respective brackets.

Lastly, the steering upgrade kit is a must do until someone finds a better steering box that will mod-in.

Chopped Liver,

I will thank you,I am sure others appreciate your imput also.Just think people get involved in fixing the problem and forget to give thanks,I am one of those.

[Kinarfi]

I really love my General Grabber AT2 27x8.50 R14 95Q 6PR OWL tires I just don't see the need for big lugs on the tire, on a tractor that has to pull a plow, ok but not MY Trooper. I also like the way the rubber protects the edge of my rims.

http://ssl.delti.com/tyre-pictures/General/GRABBERAT2.jpg

[66fastcarss]

2scoops--I certainly didn't mean to leave you out. I appreciate everyone's input and experience on the board. In fact, you were my inspiration to turn the back into a kid friendly environs! I need to post up some pics on upgrades I have done I think you will like.

Kinarfi--Please change 2scoops screen name to "CHOPPED LIVER" as he requested...

I will look into all the suggestions given. I ran the tires about 25ish PSI. Didn't know if they were ones like the maxis that can go down around 8-12 PSI or if I would destroy them like that.

Sounds like I will be putting on Lenny's steering box fix as well.

Will also check the droop. Have to get under and change the oil this week anyway (got the new drain plug as suggested that has the lever and the nipple for easier drain next change...thanks Kinarfi

Jeff

[2scoops]

  On 6/28/2011 at 9:32 PM, 66fastcarss said:

2scoops--I certainly didn't mean to leave you out. I appreciate everyone's input and experience on the board. In fact, you were my inspiration to turn the back into a kid friendly environs! I need to post up some pics on upgrades I have done I think you will like.

Kinarfi--Please change 2scoops screen name to "CHOPPED LIVER" as he requested...

I will look into all the suggestions given. I ran the tires about 25ish PSI. Didn't know if they were ones like the maxis that can go down around 8-12 PSI or if I would destroy them like that.

Sounds like I will be putting on Lenny's steering box fix as well.

Will also check the droop. Have to get under and change the oil this week anyway (got the new drain plug as suggested that has the lever and the nipple for easier drain next change...thanks Kinarfi

Jeff

So you are getting inspiration for your trooper from Chopped Liver. Yeah, not sure I care to see those pics

[MauyThai1]

  On 6/27/2011 at 5:52 PM, 66fastcarss said:

So got the trooper out for a shake down run yesterday. Everything worked great except I need some advice on suspension. Back was ok, but I think the front rebound is super stiff. It did fine over whoops and such, but when I would drive over rocks of all sizes at any speed or more abrupt bumps I would get a very harsh almost gunshot like noise(s), which I believe is the front suspension exploding back to full extension. I don't know if this was the shock or what was actually banging together. Every time it would happen it would send a small sharp jolt through the whole vehicle (we could feel it in the seat as well as hear it it was very loud). The collar on the coil over is about an inch from all the way to the top, so can't imagine the spring is too tight. Is there any other adjustment? Could there be too much nitrogen in the shock and can I check the pressure there with a regular tire gauge? If so what should it be? Any help or recommendations would be appreciated.

jeff

Check the gas charge on the shocks mine were empty and I didn't realize it, I was going through adding limit straps when I found the shocks did not have a charge. Charged my up l and eliminated the same sound you are having. Robert

[66fastcarss]

  On 7/1/2011 at 9:59 PM, MauyThai1 said:

Check the gas charge on the shocks mine were empty and I didn't realize it, I was going through adding limit straps when I found the shocks did not have a charge. Charged my up l and eliminated the same sound you are having. Robert

How do I go about checking pressure and what pressure should be run in these shocks? Where would I go to get the shocks checked/filled--who does that?

Thanks for any advice anyone may have.

Jeff

[Guest Lenny]

  On 7/1/2011 at 10:30 PM, 66fastcarss said:

How do I go about checking pressure and what pressure should be run in these shocks? Where would I go to get the shocks checked/filled--who does that?

Thanks for any advice anyone may have.

Jeff

100 to 200 pounds should be fine. You can fill them with your air compressor and run them that way and be ok. Normally they put nitrogen in them but that is more for if your working them real hard and heat related. I use Argon because that is what I have for welding and it is just as good as nitrogen. You reallycan't check the pressure as there is too small of a volume and the checking would loose too much of it. Just set your compressor to the pressure and fill it to that.

Lenny

[66fastcarss]

OK. Got Edge motorsports south of Draper, UT to fill up all four shocks to about 175 PSI with nitrogen. Should be good to go on those. They actually did it for free!! Very nice guys there. They mentioned that if there is air in the oil it can make noises like what I am describing, but is seems like this was much more a metal to metal type noise. Will see how these work and then go from there. Maybe and excuse for aftermarket shocks???

Jeff

[66fastcarss]

Just thought of something. I wonder if the noise could be coming from the ball joints? Could it be making this sound if I ground out too much out of the ball joint when drilling and tapping for the 1/2 in bolts? I tried drilling trough them while they were in place but it was very difficult, as was tapping it that way, so I ended up grinding them until I could get the 1/2 in bolts through. If there was a little slop in them could this be moving and causing the slamming noise? I never took it out prior to doing the ball joint job as everyone on here said it was dangerous so don't know if it made this noise before I started futzing with it. Just thinking of things that could be "going bump in the night"! Again appreciate everyone's advice and thoughts.

I'm off to Big Sky Montana for vacation for the rest of the week leaving Tuesday AM and back Sunday. Will see what I can find to ride around that area and let everyone know how the trooper does with charged up shocks and how the riding in the area is.

Jeff

[66fastcarss]

Update from Montana. I have had the trooper out for a couple of rides, nothing much challenging, but some rough rocky dirt roads at around 20 mph. The really harsh metal to metal noise appears to be mostly gone. I think charging the shocks really made an improvement. There is still a lot of creaks and bangs though, most of which I can easily tolerate. There is still some pretty harsh stuff from the left front and haven't been able to tell if it is in the dash or if it is coming from the steering, but am planning to do the steering box mod anyway.

It does ride pretty rough on the OEM tires and shocks/springs and am hoping this will convince the wife to let me look into some aftermarket shocks/springs maybe like those being mentioned on the board here. Also think some better tires will help in this dept as well.

I have gone up a few pretty steep and loose hills. I really am impressed with the power and climbing ability. Just seems to run right up anything I have thrown at it so far. Nice to get some rides in

Thanks for everyone's suggestions so far and LOTS more questions to come I am sure as I keep working on it.

Jeff

[66fastcarss]

Just so everyone can feel safe, I got Lenny's steering kit in a couple of days ago and seems like it will hellp A LOT! But I was confused with the first part of the instructions....It said to remove the 6 allen head screws for the stock steering box cover. When I went to do this I found mine only had 3 screws (remaining) and they were only HAND TIGHT....AGHHHHHH . I was about two bumps removed from turning the wheel left and careening straight over the side of a mountain! No wonder it was making some noise

Will keep a little closer eye on things like that in the future.