New Trooper Power Steering unit

[ricksrb]

The wife get mad at me when I take her items on the list of things to do and move them down one. I guess I'll have to see what her mood is when it gets here. May have to just throw it at the list and hope it floats to the top quickly.

Lenny

c'mon dont tell me your afraid of her. of course i'm not trying to cause any trouble.(lol)

[rocmoc]

Kinarfi, have you received a email ? I am wondering if Casey got my email wrong.

[rocmoc]

OK, everything is GOOD ! They miss-spelled gmail when my email address was typed into their system. Mine shipped same as the rest and should arrive Monday. Woohooo!

rocmoc n AZ

[Guest Lenny]

OK, everything is GOOD ! They miss-spelled gmail when my email address was typed into their system. Mine shipped same as the rest and should arrive Monday. Woohooo!

rocmoc n AZ

I've gotten in the habit of having the seller always read back all the information to me to check if they got it right. Hate to have a $400 item sent to Joe Blow in the next town over.

Lenny

[rocmoc]

I've gotten in the habit of having the seller always read back all the information to me to check if they got it right. Hate to have a $400 item sent to Joe Blow in the next town over.

Lenny

YUP agree !

[rocmoc]

Throwing this out there so you know what I have planned. IMHO the steering rack in the Trooper is a piece of cr*p. I am replacing my steer rack at the same time I install my power steering unit. Here is one of the site I am looking at for a replacement rack, http://www.dansperformanceparts.com/buggy/susp/buggysusp%20rack&pinion.htm This will get rid for the noise, slop and general problems in the steering while making it easier for the the power steering unit. Better the rack, the better the steering unit will preform.

Tracking my steering unit, it is sitting in Phoenix. Arrived yesterday mid-day. Just don't understand why they let an Item sit because it arrives too early. Bad business in my opinion.

rocmoc n AZ

[Kinarfi]

Throwing this out there so you know what I have planned. IMHO the steering rack in the Trooper is a piece of cr*p. I am replacing my steer rack at the same time I install my power steering unit. Here is one of the site I am looking at for a replacement rack, http://www.dansperformanceparts.com/buggy/susp/buggysusp%20rack&pinion.htm This will get rid for the noise, slop and general problems in the steering while making it easier for the the power steering unit. Better the rack, the better the steering unit will preform.

Tracking my steering unit, it is sitting in Phoenix. Arrived yesterday mid-day. Just don't understand why they let an Item sit because it arrives too early. Bad business in my opinion.

rocmoc n AZ

Which rack are you considering?

[rocmoc]

The one that fits, LOL!

Just had to do it. Haven't got that far yet. Will take measurements & fit to location. Maybe someone else will do it first and have it all figured out. I doubt I will even get to it until Nov or next Spring. Too much going on! I still have to put the diff upgrade kit in front diff and install them both. That is the next project on the Trooper, right behind everything else on the house & business.

I will have if done along with doors by next June for the UT, ID, WY trip. Remember Kinarfi, we are going to Killpecker, WY.

http://www.blm.gov/wy/st/en/field_offices/Rock_Springs/rec/dunes.html

http://www.duneguide.com/sand_dune_guide_killpecker.htm

rocmoc n AZ

[Guest Lenny]

Throwing this out there so you know what I have planned. IMHO the steering rack in the Trooper is a piece of cr*p. I am replacing my steer rack at the same time I install my power steering unit. Here is one of the site I am looking at for a replacement rack, http://www.dansperformanceparts.com/buggy/susp/buggysusp%20rack&pinion.htm This will get rid for the noise, slop and general problems in the steering while making it easier for the the power steering unit. Better the rack, the better the steering unit will preform.

Tracking my steering unit, it is sitting in Phoenix. Arrived yesterday mid-day. Just don't understand why they let an Item sit because it arrives too early. Bad business in my opinion.

rocmoc n AZ

Looks like a nice rack. The only thing you might want to evaluate further is the length of the rack that is supported by the housing and the overall width of support. Of course, the more narrow the support length the higher the the moment. Our tie rods are at quite an angle thus there is a fair amount of up push on the rack ends. This may be OK if the rack is supported with a good and large bearing surface on each end of the housing. My guess is that it is OK. Notice that the offroad racks are supported much better. I suspect because of the of long suspension travel putting tie rods at large angles, but they have such a high steering ratio that I think they wouldn,t work. Just some thoughts.

Lenny

[Kinarfi]

The one that fits, LOL!

Just had to do it. Haven't got that far yet. Will take measurements & fit to location. Maybe someone else will do it first and have it all figured out. I doubt I will even get to it until Nov or next Spring. Too much going on! I still have to put the diff upgrade kit in front diff and install them both. That is the next project on the Trooper, right behind everything else on the house & business.

I will have if done along with doors by next June for the UT, ID, WY trip. Remember Kinarfi, we are going to Killpecker, WY.

http://www.blm.gov/wy/st/en/field_offices/Rock_Springs/rec/dunes.html

http://www.duneguide.com/sand_dune_guide_killpecker.htm

rocmoc n AZ

Just don't drink the water out there, it's the water that gave it it's name.

I remember on time out there, I was playing catch up with a couple of friends after falling down and as I caught up, we were all going up this loooong hill, I passed one, passed the other and remember thinking, "this hill has to end pretty, oh Sh*t!!!!, soon." As I launched the bike into the air for another 10 feet of elevation, the dune dropped maybe 20-30 feet, leaving me somewhere around 30-40 feet above ground which was still going down at a steep rate, now it's really OH Sh*t!!!!! As I landed the bike, the front tire started shaking back and forth as I was trying to get it slowed down before I hit the flat at the bottom and I was doing pretty well until I hit this 1 foot of level sand and it took the bars out my hands and I ended up sliding to the bottom of the hill. I hiked back up about 10 feet and drug the bike down to the flat, fire it back up and started playing catch up again. I do believe that was the highest off the ground I had ever been until I got my airplane, Crashed that too. Hope I can NOT EVER crash my Trooper, OOPs, Too late, that's why I have plastic fenders, that keep the mud and poo off of me.

Kinarfi

[2scoops]

Throwing this out there so you know what I have planned. IMHO the steering rack in the Trooper is a piece of cr*p. I am replacing my steer rack at the same time I install my power steering unit. Here is one of the site I am looking at for a replacement rack, http://www.dansperformanceparts.com/buggy/susp/buggysusp%20rack&pinion.htm This will get rid for the noise, slop and general problems in the steering while making it easier for the the power steering unit. Better the rack, the better the steering unit will preform.

also check out the racks @ gear one. as far as racks go I guarantee you will get what you pay for. I personally havent found any end-load racks that are far & away better than what we have. silverbullet will back this up as he has tried to find alternatives. I am wondering if we couldn't go to a center-

load rack. the problem with the end loaders is that there isnt any bearings in the ends to prevent wear.

[rocmoc]

2scoops, I am far from being an expert and am always looking for the best info. If you find something, let us know. I do feel what we have isn't much better than the ropes I use on my downhill racers as a kid. I believe the rack on my INEX Legends racecar would will work and is a very good rack. I will follow up on this more.

rocmoc n AZ

[2scoops]

I am by no means an expert either. I just don't want you to waste your money. I have looked into steering boxes too & in the end I ended with Lenny's upgrade. I would like to find a precision steering box too, but the ones I found which seemed like they would work were "buggy" type boxes just like we have. One thing about ours is it is strong. I would be ecstatic if someone found a better box for ours, especially since many of us are going to powersteering. I fear the powersteering could actually make us more "squirley" at high speed. I will do some research as well and share my thoughts with you. Maybe you can be our guinee pig on this one.

[Guest Lenny]

I am by no means an expert either. I just don't want you to waste your money. I have looked into steering boxes too & in the end I ended with Lenny's upgrade. I would like to find a precision steering box too, but the ones I found which seemed like they would work were "buggy" type boxes just like we have. One thing about ours is it is strong. I would be ecstatic if someone found a better box for ours, especially since many of us are going to powersteering. I fear the powersteering could actually make us more "squirley" at high speed. I will do some research as well and share my thoughts with you. Maybe you can be our guinee pig on this one.

You having my steering upgrade, at least the steering box should be fairly solid feeling snd without excessive play. And, you are right, it is strong. For you Rocmoc, being that it will be a while until you get to doing the steering, you will have a chance to see how things work with the stock upgraded box and the power steering working together. My feeling is that if the ball joints and heims joints are all tight, and the u-joints on the steering column are not sloppy, the steering should be just fine with the stock upgraded box. 2scoops, if you put the power steering on the stock upgraded box, you will be able to give your feeling of what you find. I have a different steering rack and pinion so I can't any longer get a feeling for myself. I replaced my rack and pinion with a electric power steering box out of a Smart car. I actually got the power steering working sort of OK but never like a cars steering. That would require the electronics out of the Smart car to do. Kinarfi actually had his electric power steering working quite well but the problem is that the sensors used to sense the driver input are very very sensitive and the only way they want to seem to work well is if the entire control circuit is built right onto the power steering head itself. The factory production units are all highly developed with very complex circuits and built under precision controlls so they work good always. However, Kinarfi was using the upgraded stock steering box and it seemed to work fine. Maybe he will give us his thoughts on his views of how well the upgraded box worked with the power steering.

Lenny

[Kinarfi]

However, Kinarfi was using the upgraded stock steering box and it seemed to work fine. Maybe he will give us his thoughts on his views of how well the upgraded box worked with the power steering.

Lenny

Coming right up, I designed and built, with Lenny's mechanical help, a very functional electric power assist unit that I've been running it for a year or so now and I think the stock steering box works just fine, I originally put a .025" shim between the rack and the cap which took out a lot of the play but it wouldn't stay put and went to Lenny steering box cap and all was fine and it got rid of the play, I'm still using the stock every thing from the box out. It is my belief that the stock box is just fine and does not need to be changed, just needs Lenny's cap. My assist has plenty of power and the only damage from the power has been to the planetary gears in the gear box bolted to my assist motor. The stock box is working good.

The worst problem I have with what I designed and built is that it is sensitive to radio transmissions, it causes a turn right error and the stronger the transmission, the stronger turn right input from the motor, even passing a highway patrolman who was transmitting caused the right turn problem.

End story, steering box is ok, not absolutely certain about the linkage, my power is applied to the system at the splined input shaft of the steering box. My thoughts are that this will work.

Kinarfi

[2scoops]

I do agree our steering box with the upgrade is OK, but it still isn't as tight as other utv's (rzr). That is where I'd like to get mine.

[Banjo Minnow]

I have had the Joyner branded hydraulic assit unit since they came out. There still seemed to be some play in the unit. After Lennys fix kit it really helped but there is till play in the assist unit at the steering wheel. I am not sure how similar this unit is to what you are looking at but that is my experience.

[Guest Lenny]

I have had the Joyner branded hydraulic assit unit since they came out. There still seemed to be some play in the unit. After Lennys fix kit it really helped but there is till play in the assist unit at the steering wheel. I am not sure how similar this unit is to what you are looking at but that is my experience.

I found that all the ball joints, heims joints and column u-joints on the trooper are generally sloppy. If you have someone turn the steering wheel back and forth while you hold your hand on each joint, you will feel the slop. In fact this is where most of my play was coming from. No matter what you do with your steering box, upgrade or replace, or adding power steering will correct this. I have replaced all of this on my Trooper and nearly all the play is gone. The only play I have left is from the play in the steering rack because the side bearings are a bit loose allowing the ends of the rack to move up and down a little. This still only gives me about 3/8" play from side to side movement at the rim of the steering wheel. I'm going to rework the steering box to correct that too, then there won't be any play at all.

Lenny

[2scoops]

I wonder if one of these would work:

http://www.gear-one.com/Htmls/rhino1.html

They are pricey, but they would meet all the criteria: precise, smooth, & strong

After putting some thought to it, we would need an end load of course. A center load would not give us the correct geometry.

[rocmoc]

Mine arrived. I am impressed, looks like a nicely put together unit.

Good job Rick & Plumber.

rocmoc n AZ

[ricksrb]

Mine arrived. I am impressed, looks like a nicely put together unit.

Good job Rick & Plumber.

rocmoc n AZ

glad to hear it.Now put all those other projects aside and get this baby installed.I need to hear all the ideas of installation from everyone else before i do mine(lol).

[Kinarfi]

Mine arrived. I am impressed, looks like a nicely put together unit.

Good job Rick & Plumber.

rocmoc n AZ

Ditto, got mine and put it on the bench, plugged everything together and applied power, it started running so I called to see how to zero it out and while I was doing that, I took it apart to see what was inside, still very impressed!!! after I figured out how it works. Now to mount it up and run it.

Kinarfi

[ricksrb]

Ditto, got mine and put it on the bench, plugged everything together and applied power, it started running so I called to see how to zero it out and while I was doing that, I took it apart to see what was inside, still very impressed!!! after I figured out how it works. Now to mount it up and run it.

Kinarfi

got mine.there went your warranty...(LOL) What did they say about zeroing it out?

[Kinarfi]

got mine.there went your warranty...(LOL) What did they say about zeroing it out?

They said pull the gold plate over the position sensor and trace the current position with a pencil, dig out the hot glue, one side at a time you need to take the screw out and then put it back), then power it up and turn the sensor ever so slightly until you find where it starts to turn one way, same for the other way, center, tighten and see if it is still balanced by how hard it is to turn each way. Then I reapplied hot glue and covered it back up. Pretty simple. If you're the snooping type, don't bother to open the control box, it has 4 (presumably) FETs, a Toroid choke and a small computer chip (I think that's what I was) or 2.

Kinarfi

[ricksrb]

They said pull the gold plate over the position sensor and trace the current position with a pencil, dig out the hot glue, one side at a time you need to take the screw out and then put it back), then power it up and turn the sensor ever so slightly until you find where it starts to turn one way, same for the other way, center, tighten and see if it is still balanced by how hard it is to turn each way. Then I reapplied hot glue and covered it back up. Pretty simple. If you're the snooping type, don't bother to open the control box, it has 4 (presumably) FETs, a Toroid choke and a small computer chip (I think that's what I was) or 2.

Kinarfi

i powered mine up and it just continued to turn in one direction.did yours do the same?

[Kinarfi]

i powered mine up and it just continued to turn in one direction.did yours do the same?

yep, call me, sent you PM

[Guest Lenny]

Got mine. I assume the white wire is to be connected to a switched 12v power to turn the thing on. Is this correct?

Lenny

[Kinarfi]

Got mine. I assume the white wire is to be connected to a switched 12v power to turn the thing on. Is this correct?

Lenny

yep, tie it to the dk blue wire,

[rocmoc]

Someone needs to open a shop, LOL !

My classic car club has shop days where we could all meet and work on the cars together sharing knowledge & tools at a member's shop or house. When you going to have the first one Lenny ? LOL !

Forget the Jamborees, we need to all just meet/camp at Lenny's or Jeff's and have a fix-it session/Jamboree.

Just back online as we had a heck of a monsoon storm roll thu with hail, wind & rain yesterday afternoon. Knocked out power (short time) & cell tower (for hours) and we are all wireless now so put us off-line. And they only gave us a 10% chance of rain yesterday. 40% over the weekend and barely anything, LOL !

rocmoc n AZ

[Kinarfi]

Got mine. I assume the white wire is to be connected to a switched 12v power to turn the thing on. Is this correct?

Lenny

Lenny, empty you mail box,

On your new steering unit;

#1 Have you disassembled your new steering unit yet?

#2 Can I borrow your stock steering box back?

#3 Have you come up with any mounting ideas yet?

Inside the steering unit, there is channel that a spring loaded pot rides in and as you apply torque, the channel mover forward or backward and the pot follows it and sends a signal to the computer which powers the motor. The channel appears to be Acme thread with a very steep pitch, That's as far as I got, (so Far) so it you go further, can you take photos?

Kinarfi