Take a look at our racing joyner for the UTVRR Series!!!!!!!!!!!!

[choptop0130]

Hey everyone, were new to the site and after some conversation with lenny yesterday he advised me to post some pics of our 800cc sandviper race buggy, we currently are entering our 2nd season racing her in the east coast series UTVRR, www,utvrr.com,

She is affectionatly known as "slingshot" , the nick name is for a reason, shes known for in the upper rpm's to make butts outa the 800cc razors and rhinos LOL! Take a look at us and if you feel you have some ideas to help the brand in the racing world, by all means chime in! Keep a eye on us here or the series site to see our progress during the year as we go after the points champioship in our class, have a great one, Mike and Deana Brown

[Guest Lenny]

You are the first one on this Joyner forum that is actively racing your Joyner that I'm aware of. Glad to have you here. You didn't mention that you came in 4th overall out of about 125 racers in your class. I beleive you said that you are doing rally type racing. Very exciting type of racing and fast. Keep up the good work. I'll be cheering you on.

Lenny

[showa]

Hey sounds like fun... Any videos? Pictures ?

Have you modded the 800 motor?

Shocks ?

I liked the Viper look and almost bought one instead of my T2.....

Good luck and please keep us informed....

[Detbohica]

Great! Glad to hear someone is racing a Trooper. I will follow the website.

[choptop0130]

Hey sounds like fun... Any videos? Pictures ?

Have you modded the 800 motor?

Shocks ?

I liked the Viper look and almost bought one instead of my T2.....

Good luck and please keep us informed....

we have quit a few pics, and a few videos but are limited, we hope to get some new this season, i run a gopro inside the buggy during the race and my wife takes video and pics as she can catch me out on the course, we will see if we can get some video loaded after this weekends race! We've tweaked on the motor some and the stock shocks because we have to run stk shocks in one series but are about to have that changed and then LOOK out folks it on!

[choptop0130]

Great! Glad to hear someone is racing a Trooper. I will follow the website.

i'm sorry Detbochica, ours is a sandviper 800cc, but would like to get one of those or a renegade and do our thing on it and build into a racer for the ecore series!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[showa]

I've heard that the Renegade stock is just about as fast as the Trooper in top speed.... Haven't seen it myself....

Don't know about acceleration tho....

[Guest Lenny]

I've heard that the Renegade stock is just about as fast as the Trooper in top speed.... Haven't seen it myself....

Don't know about acceleration tho....

I heard that the accereration is also just about as fast. How heavy is your Sand Viper compared to a Renegade? Looked at some videos on the UTVRR site. That looks like a riot, wouldn't mind doing a little of that myself. I would get stuck in the outlaw class and would get killed. Stil be fun to just run it anyway.

Lenny

[rocmoc]

Kind of the reason I have been holding back on any large investments into motor upgrades to my Trooper. I think I would rather buy a sandrail and add it to the toy coral.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[dirtydog]

Very cool Choptop!! That looks like a blast. Keep pushin those Rhino's and Razr's and good luck this race season. You might contact some of the Joyner dealers listed on this site for sponsorship if you haven't already.

FYI--Casey at JMC told me they are in production on Sandviper type machine, 1100cc Chery, auto or manual trans option, 2wd or 4wd option, etc. Not sure about 2 or 4 person seating (forgot to ask or don't remember answer). Supposed to be fast & low...Says they will have pics on webstie soon and expect delivery late this year. Also will be stocking LED Spot, Flood and light bar setups soon. I saw demo unit and pre-ordered a 24" unit to replace lights on top of cab. Also ordering a elec to manual conversion for 4wd control (pre-emptive strike pre-failure).

Rocmoc, this might be the rig for you!!

[Detbohica]

I'm such a race nut, more pilot than mechanic and not good at the first but worse as a mechanic. The race series out here are huge investments mostly, there are some stock classes, and a UTV category, but with all the Trophy Trucks very little attention paid to the people that paved the past prior to big money taking over. I will continue to follow this series and watch how you do, best of luck and bring home the bacon.

[showa]

Let's see,

Lenny's engineering Skills

Rocmoc's driving skills

Both of their build skills

Would equal an interesting and formidable team in whatever they raced

Oh, I would be a relief driver. ;-)

[choptop0130]

WOW guys thanks for the well wishes, disaster struck march 2nd when getting ready to load up to go to the race, was kickin it around the property for a hott little minute and in a flat out hammer to the floor left hand sweeper turn, (dirt track style) the axle exited the trans quickly and pend me unraceable that weekend, so were going again the 31st of this month to try it again. made some mods on frame,control arm, axle and shock and it held in real well yesterday in the sand dunes.

But on another note, i think i had seen where i believe some one said on the 800 you can run the fuel pressure up to 70 psi with different injectors, wide impedence i believe it was, maybe it was lenny that was hiitin on this subject some. Runnin about 55psi at present at 14.2 on the air ratio meter. Any suggestions on makin it better guys????????????????????

[Guest Lenny]

Your going to get your most power in the 11-12 AFR area. Upsing the pressure might do this for you if it doesn't create problems in other areas. You can try it, it's not going to hurt anything. The only way your going to get the best power is to have a engine control computer that you can set the table values in. Then a good Dyno shop can get the most out of what you have. Research any dyno guy you use. My first dyno guy got more power out of my trooper but still only got something like 75HP. Thought he could maybe squeez another 15-20 hp out of it if I corrected a fluctuating fuel pressure problem. The second Dyno guy got 121 hp out of it in only 2 hours of tuning. Half the time of the other guy. There is still more under the hood if I want to spend more money on finer tuning.

Lenny

[choptop0130]

Here we are fixing to go thru tech for round 2 of the UTVRR series, all went fairly well until lap 3, it had began raining about 20 min before and when in the technical section of the mountain cliffs i caught a 4" small tree stump with left tie rod and spun me counterclockwise down the hill flipped up onto my passenger door backwards on the trail. Another racer coming down couldn't stop and hit me head on and actually rightsided me up and into a dig out in the side of the mountain!!!!!!!!!

From that point on i limped it back with a bent tie rod and parked for the evening, the rain was terrible and the attrition rate was pretty bad. but all- in-all everyone came home in good health but alot of carnage!

Gota find some tork for my 800cc motor these hills and mountains kills this little motor, need some cams for the 800, i know silver bullet makes'um for the 1100cc. Anyone know how much timing these motors can take if you could adjust the timing?

Well that's it for the moment, may have a few more pics to put up later this week!

Thanks, Mike

[2scoops]

Here we are fixing to go thru tech for round 2 of the UTVRR series, all went fairly well until lap 3, it had began raining about 20 min before and when in the technical section of the mountain cliffs i caught a 4" small tree stump with left tie rod and spun me counterclockwise down the hill flipped up onto my passenger door backwards on the trail. Another racer coming down couldn't stop and hit me head on and actually rightsided me up and into a dig out in the side of the mountain!!!!!!!!!

From that point on i limped it back with a bent tie rod and parked for the evening, the rain was terrible and the attrition rate was pretty bad. but all- in-all everyone came home in good health but alot of carnage!

Gota find some tork for my 800cc motor these hills and mountains kills this little motor, need some cams for the 800, i know silver bullet makes'um for the 1100cc. Anyone know how much timing these motors can take if you could adjust the timing?

Well that's it for the moment, may have a few more pics to put up later this week!

Thanks, Mike

Wow! Sounds like fun.

Having a manual transmission puts us at a disadvantage when trying to maintain speed up hills. Although I don't plan on changing I would love to test drive a Trooper with a CVT just to see the difference.

Troopers are really heavy, I am not sure about the buggy's. Is there any weight you can eliminate?

Correct me if I am wrong, but I do believe your car has the same rear end as the Troopers & Renegades??? If it does, I would assume your buggy has the Renegade gearing which is lower that the Troopers gearing (better low end torque), but I am not certain. If you do have the same rear end as the Troopers/Renegades it would be a good idea to go through it if you haven't already. Especially with as hard as you drive. There is an upgrade kit for these rear-ends. While going through it you could verify what gearing you have.

I assume you need to stay naturally aspirated in your class??? Have you considered an aftermarket fuel controller? Lots of options there, but you would have to research.

Last, there may be a CVT out there for your Joyner if interested. Check with Klung motors on this forum. He recently informed me they have just come out with a CVT for the Trooper. I would miss jamming gears though...

[showa]

Not sure if there is anything in this link that would help...

http://buggynews.com/engine-large-buggy-and-sand-rails.html

[choptop0130]

2scoops, thanks for getting in on the convo here! Yes sir we are having to stay naturally aspirated, we are looking at any and all advantages that we can get where it all looks to be stock, we have made all the factory tweaks we can we believe but are looking for more, lenny had made a suggestion to contact silverbullet for cam's for the 800 with the same cam grind that the 1100 has, would love to find a controller for the 800cc. I also wondered if the intake and exhaust ports are restricted by bad factory match ups per each component and would it benefit to take a look into it port wise. These motors need some timing put into them but i can't have a totally different system to do this, my class restrictions forbid it. Had played with the idea of off-setting the holes in the flywheel so as to put more ignition timing in the motor that way and not be evident from the outside but just haven't gone and done it yet, was thinking that maybe the computer could adjust for it and putit back where it wants it to be! HEY LENNY, GIVE YOUR INPUT ON MY FLYWHEEL IDEA HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest Lenny]

I beleive that the computer looks at the flywheel position for ignition timing. There is also a sensor for the camshaft but it has a broad on/off range to just tell the computer which cycle the engine is on for probably the number 1 cylinder. Looks to see if the cylinder in on the compression stroke or the exhgause stroke. This is used for both ignition timing and injector timing. You could probably shift the flywheel sensor and fool the computer without the cam sensor effecting the change.

Lenny

[choptop0130]

we have looked at that before, the problem is that the sensor on the flywheel is not mounted on the same radius as the flywheel is. the sensoer is mounted on a flat surface on the top of bell housing and if you move it left or right on the flat it moves either away or closer to the flywheel inside the bell housing. Without knowing more about how the sensor works we feel that doing that may interfere with the signal sent back to computer. Just out of thaught here not stating a fact but just upon examination that's the way it appears physically!

[Guest Lenny]

Rocmoc has a Trooper engine that is the same I beleive except for it has 4 cylinders instead of. Maybe he could look at it to see if the sensor could be moved. seeing as it's out on the floor where he can see it easily.

Lenny

[choptop0130]

i p.m. him with this topic, if it becomes a poibility all i will need to nail down is how to time the motor and how much timing the motor can take. Dosen't seen to be that there is a "known" timing for these motors, do you know of anyone that has attempted to do this or where to get the specs on the motor totally? i think if i can get all of this info and be able to manipulate the timing then the sky will be the limit on this deal. Also does that sensor work off of magnatism or how does it read the position of the flywheel?

[2scoops]

Check with these guys if you are interested in a fuel controller:

Dobeck Performance

Have you checked with Silverbullet Motorsports to see if they have any performance upgrades for the 800cc motor?

[Kinarfi]

When i tore my motor down, my sensor was about 3/4 diameter and fixed in place, no slop for moving, the sensor is most likely and inductive pick up and there are others out there that are pencil thin which if properly mounted, could be moved forward or backward to change timing slightly, the way it works, IMHO, is there is a wide spot on the flywheel where the sensor misses a pulse and the computer uses that to sense where the pistons are, so if you use a small diameter sensor where, you should be able to move the timing slightly, as for wiring the new sensor, it probable has 3 wires, +,-, and signal, same as what's there. Remember, this is just MHO

Kinarfi

[Guest Lenny]

What the sensor does is to tell the computer where top dead center is for cylinder1. The computer then sends the spark pulses to the ignition coil based on how many degrees the computer sees in its ignition table. The spark will then be that number of degrees before top dead center. The computer has the terminals for programing it if you can find a way to figure them out. The computer is a Seimens (at least on the trooper) but is almost for certain a standard computer that is programed for the Joyner you have. If you could get to the computer tables, you could just change the timing there.

Here are all the Markings on a Joyner Troopers computer

Seimens VDO

5WY5151D

index 03

C 14.07.07/2

C3113S4A

SIMK31

0412

S11-3605010 JA

5WY5151A

IJN

Made in China

The receptical on it is marked KET 2A

It would be interesting to see if the this might indicate the the computer is the same as yours except for different programing which I'm sure someof the numbers would indicate.

Just a thought.

Check with these people:

http://www.sctflash.com/

http://www.inndevinc.com/resumes/electrical-and-computer-engineering-resume.html

http://www.dtco.co.uk/generator/www/uk/en/vdo/dtco_old/system/workshop_solutions/sds/service_diagnostic_systems_sds_en.html

Ask on this forum:

http://www.sctflash.com/forum/

Lenny

[choptop0130]

Lenny, looking at the other sites you gave me i'm just not sure i understand what i'm lookin at here being's that i'm not into the computer end of these things. If it were posible then it would be the way to go! Also Kinarf, would you have any idea where to get a sensor like that? I looked thru your pics on your rebuild, if you don't mind me asking, where did you get all the specs for rebuiling your motor? You know like tolerances,torque specs,etc.?

[Kinarfi]

it's all in the manual and the link for all Joyner manuals is available in the pinned parts & pieces thread as well as a lot of other good information and the link it http://www.jmcmotors...vehicle-manuals

Google "inductive proximity sensor" but don't ask which one I suggest, I have no idea, I just know they are out there and they are in our trooper.

[charlie]

Nice but to here some me one racing a Joyner. I saw a video. On youtube. Lenny in your opinion or anyone else I have the fuel programmer on my trooper with a snorkel. I was gonna get the air fuel gauge for it there's a good synonymous shop in my town do you guys think I should have it tuned????

[charlie]

Sorry about the above type errors stupid smart phone. What I was trying to say should I have my trooper dyno tuned?

[Guest Lenny]

It will only do a lot of good if you have the ability to change the tables in the computer itself or effectively change them by fooling the computer with a controller in which you can manulipate the amount you fool the computer in each of the various load conditions. I wouldn't do any dyno work until I first matched both the intake and exhaust ports which could make a big difference on power produced. Hate to see you pick up an extra 20 hp when you could maybe have picked up 35. The dyno cost will be the same. Preferrably use a chasis dyno that removes the rear wheels and hooks directly to the rear axels. They are far more sensitive allowing you to get more horsepower. Don't be fooled otherwise. Only thing better is an engine dyno.

Lenny