Shock Help From the Experts.

[Guest Lenny]

I got my 200 lb springs today. Can I change springs without removing the reservoir line?

Yes, the springs slide off the bottom. You'll have to use a spring compressor to take the spring pressure off the springs so you can remove the bottom collar. Be careful, compressing springs can be extreamly dangerous. Not so much when the spring is still over the shock but if you slide it off while it is compressed, and it lets loose, look out. It can brake an arm or take out all your teeth. Best way is to get a good hold of the springs with the spring compressor then back off the preload collars.

Lenny

[Kinarfi]

Lenny, how about a photo of your spring compressor, My tyraps just don't work .

[Guest Lenny]

Lenny, how about a photo of your spring compressor, My tyraps just don't work .

I'll do you one better. You can have my old ones, I'll send them to you. I made new ones that clamp to the spring so they can't let go. The ones I'm sending you are cheaper Chineese ones and can let loose. The main thing to remember is to always have the spring over a pipe or the shock when you use these. The pipe should be clamped tight in your vise and be about 2": in diameter and a couple of feet long. Where you can get into trouble is when you try to tighten them under heavy compression. They will try to twist themselves off the spring, letting go. Keep in mine that if you are compressing a 400# spring say 3", it is pushing back with 1200#. If it lets go, it's instant and can brake an arm easily. YOu have no way to know which way it is going to fly. You may get hit with the spring or the spring compressor, hard, super hard. I've seen them let loose, it's scary. I know, i'm being over careful but the spring can be over dangerous.

Read this--- http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/77506-verge-serius-spring-compressor-accident-2.html

Watch this---

Lenny

[Kinarfi]

Decided to get some new shocks & springs for the front of my Trooper, I'm going with the FOA 6" which has 18.3" eye to eye, so, I want the 18" X 200# spring, RIGHT?????

After I get that info, all I need to do is get the width of the shock mount and get it ordered.

Thanks,

Kinarfi

[Guest Lenny]

You need to know what the compressed height of the spring is and how much available space in on the shock for the spring when it's fully compressed. If the compressed height of the spring is more then the available spaced you will reduce the 6" of shock stroke. You also need to know what the uncompressed shock has available for the spring to fit into. If for example you have a maximum of 14" available for the spring then the spring will be compressed at least 4". That means that the preload setting is limited from 800 pounds minimum to higher. If you find that a 600 pound preload is better then you won't be able to go there. Now if that was a 16" x 200# spring then your preload would start at 400 pounds which would allow you to go to 600 pounds by cranking it down an additional 1". Now if you were to find that the 200 pound spring was too stiff even with a very low compression dampening, then maybe a 150 pound spring would give you the softness you like even though the preload pressure of the spring may be set at the same as the 200 pound spring. An 18" x 150 pound spring when compressed 4" would be at 600 pounds which would then be your minimum. Even though a 150 pound spring will probably be too light, you get the idea. You have to guess what might be the best spring considering fit, preload and ride softness or stiffness. There are springs that would be too long or too short to fit or, produce too high of a minimum preload or, be totally the wrong spring weight. By looking ast the numbers, you can at least avoid these springs. I think 200 pounds is probably ok but the 18" length may or may not work. My front geometry is different from stock so I'm guessing on the 200 pounds.

Lenny

[Banjo Minnow]

Decided to get some new shocks & springs for the front of my Trooper, I'm going with the FOA 6" which has 18.3" eye to eye, so, I want the 18" X 200# spring, RIGHT?????

After I get that info, all I need to do is get the width of the shock mount and get it ordered.

Thanks,

Kinarfi

I don't think the 18 will fit. The biggest that will fit is the 16 inch I think. I have the 14" and I just put on the 200 lb. spring. With about a 1/2 to an inch of preload I am sitting at 13.5 inches of clearance with the stock tires. I still feel a little stiff, but I am thinking it is like Lenny said about my valving not being quite right. I wouldn't go any longer than a 16 inch and I would try either a 175 or 200 pound spring. I am valved at 35 70 i think and I think I could go softer on the compression not sure about the rebound. Lenny said maybe a 20 90 which I would be willing to try. Good luck.

[Guest Lenny]

Keep in mind that there are two things that can make the suspension feel stiff. One is too much spring or compression dampening. The other is the rebound dampening. If the rebound dampening is set too light, the the vehicle will rebound too fast and put it above its normal ride heigth. Once compressed the suspension should only allow you to rebound slowly. Not so slow that if you go 20 mph across a dip say 3 feet across and 6" deep, the wheels can't stay on or follow the ground. Throw a 6" diameter bean bag on the ground, there is no bounce to it at all and its center may end up at 2" off the ground. You just want to slowly reinflate the bean bag so its back to 3" off the ground. You feel a cushoned initial hit and really don't feel the rebound as its very soft with no suddenness to it. Now throw a golf ball on the ground. It takes a hard sudden hit, compresses and fires back at you. Not do you only feel the initial hit which can be soffened with correct spring rate and compression dampening but if the rebound dampening is too low, connected to the initial hit you feel the kick back of the spring. These two together make it feel like you hit a much bigger bump. Of course, now that its kicked back too far it has to settle back down to its normal riding height. Think of your suspension as two completely seperate things. One is a spring taking a load and a dampener cushing it so it feels right in a variety of conditions. The other and completely not related is a compressed spring pushing a load with dampening so the spring doesn't push it past its normal point. Hope this makes sense. Not the easiest thing to explain. Watchg videos of Throphy trucks and you will see ones that are right on and others that are not.

Based on what Banjo Minnow has found, sounds to me Kinarfi that a 16" 175# spring would be about right.

Lenny

[Kinarfi]

Thanks Lenny, just talked to FOA and they said to order the 14" and I went with 200# because I think 150# would be too light and they don't have the 175#. I ordered them and they should be here in about 3 weeks, cost around 555 with shipping.

[charlie]

I think I have read on hear most of you guys run an 8-8.5 travel rear shock ??? What size limit straps do you run and how are you figuring that travel, what are you running in front 6.5 I'm considering the fox air shocks when I upgrade I do a lot of flow riding were I'm at due to trail size and I have a friend that can get me a great deal on them

[Banjo Minnow]

New question. I was sitting on 425 over 500 on the rear. I was only getting about 9- 9.5 inches of clearance with alot of preload. I just switched to 500 over 500 and still only have 10.5 inches with alot of preload. I did notice that the main spring is compressing about an inch when let off the jack. Should I go up to a 600 lb main spring? Just seems like a lot of spring for these machines, but I cant seem to get much ride height in the rear.

[Guest Lenny]

If your clearance is the same as before the spring change then your springs arn't pushing any harder. When setting up my suspension, I bought a lot of used springs off Ebay. I found that a lot of springs arn't the spring rate as indicated on Ebay. They were marked with the rating but not by the factory and someone just got it wrong. If you buy name brand good quality name brand springs that are factory marked you should be ok. Also check to see if the springs are their full manufactured heigth, If the spring has been collapsed you will loose some heigth right from the get go. Keep in mind that when you put one 500# spring over another 500# spring, you have a 250# rate until the tender spring is out of play. So going from 425# to 500# on top, you only added 21 pounds of extra push in dual spring mode. Here is how you figure the combined rate. Take the tender spring rate times the main spring rate and divide this total by the tender spring rate plus the main spring rate. 500x500 / 500+500 = 250 425x500 / 425+500 = 229 Of coarse once the tender spring is out of play, your rate becomes the same as the main spring. Sometimes going to a longer spring without increasing its rate will give you the heigth you need. It's a little complicated to decide which springs you should have. If you want to talk on the phone, pm me your phone number and when your available and I'll call you and we can discuss it. Hopes this helps.

Lenny

[2scoops]

New question. I was sitting on 425 over 500 on the rear. I was only getting about 9- 9.5 inches of clearance with alot of preload. I just switched to 500 over 500 and still only have 10.5 inches with alot of preload. I did notice that the main spring is compressing about an inch when let off the jack. Should I go up to a 600 lb main spring? Just seems like a lot of spring for these machines, but I cant seem to get much ride height in the rear.

You are about an 1 inch to 1.5 inches too low--right? How much preload are you currently running? One other thing I am wondering is since these machines are pretty much hand built, maybe your suspension geometry is different than mine/others. If your lower or upper shock mounts are closer to the pivot point of the swing arm it will create more leverage on your shock compressing it more. You haven't moved your shock mounts have you? You could save some money and move your upper shock mount back. You will probably need to fabricate some brackets as I did. It was one of the easier adjustments I made. You will also gain some suspension travel in the process. Just make sure you don't go too low like I did. I popped my CV shaft out in Moab 2 times because it drooped too far.

[Banjo Minnow]

What I don't know about moving the mount back is that the shocks just barely fit in the current location. At full extension the bolt holes barely line up, so if I move the upper back, the shock won't bolt up unless compressed, will this affect your theory, or is this a non-issue?

[2scoops]

Yes, if you axle is bumping against your swingarm and the shock just fits then you can't go any further back on the top mount. In this case you will actually want to go further back on the lower mount. Even if you move the mount back an inch, you will see a significant change.