tapered roller bearings

[lowgear]

When I put in the new wheel bearings (tapered) they tightened up before I could get any preload on them. What I found on mine was the inner races were making contact preventing the rollers from seating. I took the bearings apart and ground off .010 off one of the races so that the rollers could seat. If anyone else has replaced their wheel bearings check to see if you still have a very slight amount off play in your wheel if you do this could be the problem. Tapered wheel bearings need a slight amount of preload for the rollers to seat if they don't it will ruin the new bearing very fast.

[dirtydog]

I had same problem with my tapered bearings. I don't have machine shop like Lenny so was afraid to grind races and went back to original bearings. Good luck with yours!

[bruhaw]

What tapered bearings did you use? Ones from Casey at JMC - S31 is the part number I believe. I just put the bearings in my hubs this past week but have not installed as I was rebuilding both front and rear diffs. Going to put it all together this week sometime but wondering if I will run into same problem as you two with the new bearings.

[charlie]

Hey bruhaw

Question for you ?? I had my front and rear diffs rebuilt havnt driven it yet that's tomorrow. What I am wondering is if you had a hard time getting your rear locker to work right?? Meaning when I first put it together I didn't get much movement in the pin at the diff so I lubed the cable the best I could and pull the pin with a pair of pliers and it was moving put not like the front. I put it all back together and I could engage the locker by using the cable but the Pin did not go back on its own! When I had the wheels off the ground and went from lock to unlock as Spinned the wheels the pin would sit back as it should and lock as it should. But it had to be spinning pin did not just slide in. So I pulled the pin with plies till I had full engagement marked pin with a marker and hooked the cable back up! I got it adjusted to what I think is full engagement put pin doesnt go back in I need to help it any ideas

[lowgear]

For anyone that has or is going to replace the wheel bearings to the tapered ones and would like some advice give me a call 330-646-8327. The bearings are the ones from Casey the #B31 bearing. These bearings are no longered made and I beleive the company that did make them is no longer in buisness. I don't know how many are left but for those that have T2's or T4's and plan on keeping them I would get your replacements as soon as you can, who knows when they will been gone. I can only give advice on what I have done to make them right. It is not hard to do just takes some work.

[Guest Lenny]

I'm assuming that the outter races are back to back in the center and the inner races with their rollers come in fron the sides and face each other. It's very important that they are this way. If your bearings are coming as a dual bearing with a once piece outter race, this is the way they will be. If the outter races are seperate, you could always put a shim in between them to take up the slack too. This would have the same effect as what Lowgear has done. His approach is perfectly fine too. Just be sure to rince the bearings clean after grinding on them. You don't need to grinde them on a lathe or blanchard type grinder, you can free hand grind them.

Lenny

[Kinarfi]

I just got 4 new roller fro Casey, he got a bunch of them for a better price and the price was better than when I first talked to him. Here's a video of how loose thing are right now, I'm thinking I may have to have my bearing holders welded and rebored or else the bearings really really need to be replace.
Kinarfi

[rocmoc]

goindeep or Lenny, about Kinarfi's hub issuse.

This maybe the biggest future upgrade / replacement after-market part required. This will effect everyone sooner or later. Someone needs to either make the repair available or produce a replacement hub. Talk to Lenny, he modified his a LONG time ago.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[Guest Lenny]

If the new bearings are loose by only one or two thousands, I would contact Loc-Tite and see if they make a bearing seat compound that will take high pressures. If they do, this could solve the problem. If its looser then that, I would talk to a plater to see what they can do. I would think that a plating would need to have a compressive strength of 20,000 to 25,000 psi to be strong enough.. This would be better then welding and grinding which would be a last resort but probably a little expensive. Getting a nice clean weld on the ID with it being as deep as it is would take a good welder. I would be inclined to hire a professional welder that, that is all they do. Hard to find a really good welder but they are out there, call around to people that hire out their production welding. Don't have the machine shop do it. Let them do the machining. I would think that an interferrance fit of about .0005 to .0010 would be enough but talk to a bearing supplier or look it up on google. What ever you do, don't hammer the bearings in place unless all the hammering blows are on the outter race edge only. Pressing in is better,

Lenny

[Kinarfi]

Just got off the phone with Henkel who makes Loctite and they suggested 680 http://www.henkelna.com/industrial/product-search-1554.htm?nodeid=8797928521729 or 638 http://www.henkelna.com/industrial/product-search-1554.htm?nodeid=8797921640449 . The 680 has a slightly higher PSI rating.

[Kinarfi]

The bearing come pre greased, is there any reason NOT to add more bearing grease to the bearing?

[rocmoc]

The bearing come pre greased, is there any reason NOT to add more bearing grease to the bearing?

Taking a chance of damaging the seal! It is a sealed bearing.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[Kinarfi]

not sealed to where it would pressure, additional grease would added by hand and fingers pushing it in. Photos coming tomorrow, if I don't forget.

[dirtydog]

You can't put too much grease in wheel bearing if doing it by hand. My new tapered brgs from Casey were also loose. Inner race was too wide. I wanted to ride so put them aside and bought originals which are working fine. Disassembled and packed the heck out of them before installing. Future project will be grinding tapered brgs to make zero tolerance, zero preload. Good luck Kinarfi, I hope it's the bearing and not the hub.

[Guest Lenny]

You can't put too much grease in wheel bearing if doing it by hand. My new tapered brgs from Casey were also loose. Inner race was too wide. I wanted to ride so put them aside and bought originals which are working fine. Disassembled and packed the heck out of them before installing. Future project will be grinding tapered brgs to make zero tolerance, zero preload. Good luck Kinarfi, I hope it's the bearing and not the hub.

Bearings will last longer and take much higher loading with preload.

Lenny

[Kinarfi]

You can't put too much grease in wheel bearing if doing it by hand. My new tapered brgs from Casey were also loose. Inner race was too wide. I wanted to ride so put them aside and bought originals which are working fine. Disassembled and packed the heck out of them before installing. Future project will be grinding tapered brgs to make zero tolerance, zero preload. Good luck Kinarfi, I hope it's the bearing and not the hub.

I'm sure I will need some loctite, the ball in the bearings that were in there when I bought it broke in two and crumbled, and the hub wasn't real tight when I replaced them, I did use red loctite, but I think what I used was for bolts, when I put these in, I WILL be using 860.

Question for other who got bearings from Casey, can you pull the inner races out with out damage, it's my guess that there is a piece of plastic holding them in.

[bruhaw]

I got bearings from Casey a couple months ago and had the same problem. I didn't have any preload at all and did have some play in the wheel. Not nearly as much as you Kinarfi but a little. I ended up taking one hub and all the bearings to a friend who does auto repair and has a machine shop. He took the bearings apart and machined the inner races after making a holding tool so that everything was done with some precision. So, yes you can take them apart with no problems. We put one in the hub and did have preload so I ended up having him install them in all the hubs. He had one axle and was able to check everything there before I went ahead and had them all done. I gave Casey feedback and so did my mechanic and I think JMC ended up getting the next batch of bearings already machined so that this would not have to be done. Talked with him yesterday about these posts and it sounded like they fixed the problem from the previous bearings they were selling. I asked my guy if the bearing was loose in the hub and he said that it wasn't too loose or tight for that matter. He said he really didn't need a big press to get them in or out but that they just didn't slide in either. I asked him about loctite and he said I didn't need it for my hubs but if there was some looseness it would help that for sure. I also talked with Casey about replacement hubs and he does have front and rear for around $75-$80 dollars it sounds like. I do have a little play when rocking the tire on the top pushing it in toward the vehicle and back out but it is very minimal and I am running 30" tires so I don't know if I can every get that little bit of play out of there. I have the preload and my bearings aren't going to spin in the hub so there should not be a problem. I thought going to tapered bearings was a great idea but it ended up being a little more work than what I had planned as I had to pull the hubs and remove bearings twice. Either way i am OK now and hopefully will never have to replace them again.

[Guest Lenny]

Good report Bruce. Remember that you can press the two inner races together in a vise to tested. After pressing the outter race should turn a little tight but not so tight that you can feel roughness when turning it. If your havng bearings ground to provide preload, this is a good way to check it as you go.

Lenny

[Kinarfi]

It's been awhile since I had the axle and bearing apart, but if I remember correctly, when you tighten up the nut that holds the spindle on, you are squeezing the two inner races together, is that correct? If so,the amount free play as you wobble the tire can be increase by putting a shim between the races and decreased by removing some of the inner part of one or both of the races, right?

EDIT: According to Lenny, the answer to both questions would be yes, He posted while I was typing evidently.

[Guest Lenny]

It's been awhile since I had the axle and bearing apart, but if I remember correctly, when you tighten up the nut that holds the spindle on, you are squeezing the two inner races together, is that correct? If so,the amount free play as you wobble the tire can be increase by putting a shim between the races and decreased by removing some of the inner part of one or both of the races, right?

EDIT: According to Lenny, the answer to both questions would be yes, He posted while I was typing evidently.

Thats correct. Thats providing that the nut or hub doesn't bottom out first.

Lenny

[Kinarfi]

I took my new bearings and put a 1/2" bolt through them and cinched them down and they passed the turn tightly and smoothly test, then I pulled them apart and filled them with grease and repeated the test, they passed with flying colors, mostly a shade of blue, the color of the grease I added, but I'm sure they're full and I plan to put extra grease between the bearing and the seals too. Here's a photo of the best one of two that came out. I thought I had ball bearings instead of roller bearing and I think I added grease as I did this time, but maybe not as much and the grease looked more like black shoe polished that had dried out. While I had the new bearing in the hub housing, I was able to slide a .004 X.500 feeler gauge down the side of the bearing to the stop on one bearing and .003 X .5 down the other. Ordered Loctite 680 from McMaster Carr, they sell it in .02 oz. packages for $1.61 each so you don't have to get the 10ml bottle and have it die on the shelf. When I looked for it locally, no one carried it, too short of shelf life, I guess. Remember to get seals and that the manuals list the wrong size for one of them, the correct sizes are 62 X 42 X 8 for the inner seal and 65 X 45 X 8 for the outer seal. Again, my pipe bender came through as a very capable bearing press. It's my hope that the 680 loctite will be the fix we've been looking for.

Kinarfi

[Kinarfi]

What a bummer!!!! I took a hand full of photos and some videos and as I transferred them from phone to computer, I lost the content of every file, all I got the the file name. Oh well!! Any way, spent a good portion of my day working with the new bearings, I have 2 very thick washers that are just the right size to center them selves in the bearings and with a little bit of paper wrapped around the bolt I used to squeeze the races together, the washers centered on the bolt too. With that, I could put the bolt in my drill and spin the bearing, I was surprised when I started to feel the heat build up in it to the point I had to put it in a vice. I let it run while I got my thermocouple out to measure the temp and in a minute or 5, it reached a temp of 100 C and some of the grease had worked it's way out. I put it aside to cool and did the same the another bearing, same story, hot and pushing grease out.

I measure the voltage and current of the drill running with out putting the bearing in the vise, and then with the bearing in the vice and calculated that the bearing was using up about 90 watts to be spun at the start of testing, as the bearing heated up the voltage would rise (meaning the drill was running faster) and the current would drop (meaning it needed less torque to be spun) and the required power would drop considerably (didn't calculate that).

I repeated the process again and this time the starting power was lower and the amount of grease that was pushed out was less also, but all the grease that got pushed out between the inner races looked like it had boiled, (had photos, but lost them)

One thing to take into consideration it the fact that I was spinning them at probably 3 to 10 timers their normal speed and that without being in the hub, they had nothing but air and the rubber jaws of the vice to pull the heat away.

At any rate, I think I ran the bearings in a bit and I know that they can't push much more grease out, probably ought to open one to make sure there is still plenty of grease inside, I plan to pack grease on the outside of the bearing between the bearing and seal just to keep any thing that gets past the seals away from the bearing.

Another thing is that the piece of all threat (about 12") had absolutely no wabble that I could feel with the bearing in the jaws of a bigger vise than what I used while spinning. waiting on parts and pieces, Loctite.

Kinarfi

[Kinarfi]

Question to all, I was doing some reading up on bearing greases to see if I could find a truly best, couldn't find a clear winner, but I did see an article about NOT mixing them, so I took my bearings apart and cleaned them thoroughly. My loctite showed up so I mounted the bearing out races in the hubs, with loctite! If you go with the .5ml packages and have as much or more clearance than I did, order 3 or more packages.

I also am considering leaving the seals off the bearings and relying on the wheel seals so I can put more grease in the bearing cavity, any comments about this idea?

Also, the main reason for changing the bearing at this time was that it sounded like one of them had failed last time out, what it turned out to be was the brake caliper bracket had a broken pin, the one that goes back into the caliper on the side that had the screw that you back out so you can change shoes and I lost the rubber seal that keeps dirt out so it can move in and out and not jam up. I got a new caliper mount, but I need that rubber accordion seal boot and I can't find one, does any one have one off an old set of brake calipers they want to part with????? or a suggestion of something that will take it's place.

Thanks,

Kinarfi

[Kinarfi]

Just calculated the speed of the bearing at 60mph (720) versus speed of drill (1300) and it came out to be that the drill was only 1.8 times as fast.

[lowgear]

Kinarfi, I wouldn't leave out the bearing seal and rely only on the wheel seal. The bearing seal is a much better seal to keep out fine dust and dirt, I use both but that's just my way. The brake caliper dust seals may be the same as some of the dirt bike calipers, if you have a jap bike dealer around you I would check with them you might find a match. No you donot want to mix grease some are not at all compatable with others. I think when we talked the other day I told you that the grease will expand with heat, if you put in to much grease it will push out somewhere. Running the bearing in is ok it will help to get the grease into every little spot. If the grease your using is showing signs of boiling out at 100c I think you might want to try another kind the bearings will easily see 100c plus when under stress and the ambient temp is 90f or more.

[nocturnalsixer]

Id recommend synthetic bearing grease i have had great luck with Lucas farm grease (extreme duty)

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[Kinarfi]

OOOPs, while I was reading about bearings and grease for bearings, I ran into an article about cleaning them and about not mixing different brands of grease, it said not to mix greases because they may have different make ups and cause them to liquefy, it also said to NOT mix up the inners and outers of different bearings, did I pay attention????Yes & NOooo, I figured that since my bearing were all new, that the article had to do with the wear on them, and I ended up with 4 inners in the same box and the outer were already mounted in the hubs. After cleaning and regreasing because of the mixed grease in the bearings, I assembled them and ended up with wobble in one of the bearings. Bothered by this and the article I had read and experiences I've read about here, I took an unused bearing apart and started measuring the width of the inner races, one was .6845" and the other was .6895 (from memory) so if that holds true for the rest of the bearings, it looks like I got two of the .6895 in one hub and two of the .6845 in the other, guess I'll be pulling thing apart again.

We had a saying at one place I worked, it went like this, Why do things twice when you can do them them right?, or was it Why do things right when you can do them them twice?

and get paid for it both times. Since I'm my own boss, I don't get paid, so I need to do it right, first and second time.

[Guest Lenny]

With the dimensions different, I would bet that the bearings are made with one inside race edge (the one on the small side of the roller cluster) is extended on one of the two bearings especially for the dual bearing setup. This allows the two inner races to come together correctly. A standard single bearing is probably like the narrower one. If you put two longer bearings together, your going to be loose and vise-versa. You might want to use your bolt setup to squeez them together to help and figure out which is which,

Lenny

[charlie]

This confuses me lol some one or company just make a great bearing and hub

[Kinarfi]

I did, I assumed that I had to 2 long in one hub and the 2 shorts in the other hub, so I pulled the seal, the snap ring and popped an inner race out of each hub and swapped them and put it all back together and applied the bolt squeeze and spun them with my 830 RPM Milwaukee 1/2" corded drill, I rigged a method of putting an amp meter on the drill and as it ran, the current dropped. The drill alone pulled 1.5 amps, with squeezed bearing, one started out at 2.5 amps and dropped to 1.9 amps and the other started out at 2.5 amps and dropped to 2.0 amps. Both bearings felt good with no wobble on my 10" bolt. Tomorrow, I'll put it together and check it with tires mounted, I expect it to be tight, right.

This confuses me lol some one or company just make a great bearing and hub

I suspect the use of Loctite 680 at every bearing change may be the fix we've needed, as long as Loctite lives up to it's promises. I'll let you know, eventually.