Front suspension, heim joints, ball joints, etc,

[Kinarfi]

If you are going to pull the 8 heim joints, put a mark on them so you tell which one went wear, stamp a number or letter on each or multiple center punch marks on each one so you can tell which was upper rear left etc etc,.

Then take a flat piece metal or stiff plastic, and drill a hole in it that the bolt can fit into, really tight is best. then before you pull the old hiem, put a piece of masking tape along the front and rear of each A arm, put the bolt through the hole, hold the metal tight against the arm where you taped it and mark the end of the the metal, my piece of metal was around 8" and the hole was an inch or so off center, so I marked both ends. that way, you can screw the new hiem to match the old.

Lenny, please correct me if I'm wrong,

This puts the new heims in same place as the old heims and should keep the current alignment, However, after thinking about what we have to work with, the distance from the center of the mounts for each arm is fixed, so, you need to screw the heims in or out so the fit that distance, now if you screw one heim in, you need to screw the other heim out to maintain that distance, this also swings the position of the ball joint forward or rearward, which will give you your caster, there is no camber adjustment. If you're not sure about caster and camber, Google it, there are some good articles out there.

To those who know, what would be a good caster angle?

[Guest Lenny]

Charlie, we must think alike, I was writing this as you were writing your above post. Can't remember what I set my caster and camber at but will check to see if I have it written down. You should check your caster and camber before completeing the job. I found that mine were different on each side. You can use a framing square on the floor th check this. I think the specs are in the Joyner manual. You adjust the camber by adjusting the top two joints or the bottom two joints as a pair. In other words if you adjust the rear upper joint say one turn out, you need to adjust the upper front joint one turn out. Adjusting the bottom pair of joints in one turn would do the same thing . You adjust the forward or rearward position of the wheel by adjusting the rear two joints or the front two joints, again as a pair. YOu adjust the caster by adjusting one of the joints at a time to swing the top or bottom balljoint forward or rearward.

Kinarfi, nice thinking on the ball joints. That should give them some extra life. If the joint is loose in the A-frame, one trick I use at times to tighten this kind of situation is to put punch marks all arounf the outside surface of the ball joint socket. I'm talking about lots of punch marks, maybe four or five rolls up and down and marks 1/8 inches apart all the way around. This has the same sffect as knurling the surface to expand the OD size. If it is too tight to press in, you can sand the surplus off. Don't punch it so light so that you are just setting on the sharp rim of the little crater you create. You want that sharp rim to flatten when its pressed in to create increased surface area, so they should go in quite tight. Also use loctite to fill in the minor voids. Mine were sloppy loose in the A-frame. By going to larger joints on mine, I was able to machine the A-frame holes out a bit and the OD of the joint to match the two for a medium press fit. By correcting the heims joints, ball joints and using the steering upgrade, you can eliminate the main source of the clunking noises from the front. As we all know, these Troopers can rattle like a loaded trash truck going flat out on a bumpy road.

Lenny

[charlie]

Lol well I'm pretty sure I get it all know pretty much what I was thinking!!! Gotta get threw my ski trip with my son then I will start up grading the front end and if I get stumped I know we're to find u guys

[Kinarfi]

Lenny, I tried that compress the Trooper heim joint on the tie rod end and it just wouldn't work, so I checked it out a little closer and it seems that all I was doing was hammering the sockets onto the ball, then I ground the inside of the socket out a little and it worked fine. I got the ball joints rebuilt and did the center punch thing on them and put them into their appropriate sockets with yellow Loctite and cleaned up the stub axles and fitted them with new roller bearings with yellow Loctite and I'm done for the day while the Loctite cures.

[Kinarfi]

http://www.utvboard.com/gallery/image/854-20121226-120556/

[Kinarfi]

kinarfi what about using one of those joints on the end of our steering rack and getting rid of the tierod end?????????????????????

The specs on this particular joint is that it can handle a 23° movement, so if the tie rod is 18"(an aprox guess) you could only have 18" time (the tangent of 23°) 0.42447481620960474202353206294252=7.6405466917728853564235771329654" of wheel travel if the bolt through the ball is vertical, if the shank is vertical, the max turn angle from full left to full right would be 23°

I Don't think they would work, IMHO.

After working with and looking at the tie rod to hub connection, I have changed my opinion, I think they would work just dandy, however, if it gets done, it will be by someone other than me.

[charlie]

The hiem joints at the tie rod end???

[Guest Lenny]

I actually heated and twisted the arm at the wheel that the tierod connects to so that the ball joints I use flex the same amount when turned tight right as tight left. Before doing that I was flexing like 28 degrees one way and only 24 degrees the other. I could only get my joints to fles about 26-1/2 degrees so it wasn't going to work. Now with 26 degrees each way it does. Remember that I have 14-1/2" of suspension travel so I need more flex in the joint then stock. Also I'm turning somewhat tighter then stock and that also requires more joint flex.

Lenny

[charlie]

Someday hopefully my t2 wil be as tricked out as u guys

[Kinarfi]

I'm just about done fixing the front end, back up after a few years of use and abuse.

New heim joints of all A arm,

rebuild all 4 ball joints,

rebuild both tie rod end ball joint

Do a "Lenny" squash on the tie rod heim joints,

replace dust proof boots on steering box,

cover A arm heim joints with polyurethane foam to keep grease in and dirt out,

Replace wheel bearing with roller bearings,

replace bearing seals,

added lock nuts to the bolts that hold the ball joints in the spindles, FOUND PREVIOUS ERROR,

When doing the ball joint bolt fix, check the clearance on the bolt head and the nut at full turn to the lower A arm, I found that I could not use the lock washer I had on and had to grind the head of the bolt down and cut off any bolt that extended through the nut or they would bind against the A arm and limit the turn when the shock was fully extended. To test, put a piece of paper on the A arm and turn the wheel to the stops and see if the paper still moves.

http://www.utvboard.com/gallery/image/857-20130103-152933/

Hopefully, all I have left to do is set my toe in,

I tested the amount of play I have and it was 0.000, After I get the tires back on, I'll check it again and then take it outside to see if I got rid of the clunks and noise as well as I think I have.

I also did some measuring to see how sharp my Trooper turns and and came up with ~ 50° inward before the CV starts binding, just to clarify, 0° is straight down the road.

[charlie]

nice job Kinarfi let us know how it rides Im gonna start going threw my front end soon too but no heat in my garage and 25-30 degrees out side is slowing my motivation hahaha

[Guest Lenny]

Kinarfi is right on checking the bolts that hold the ball joint studs in. I always check mine if I make any changes. When getting it to clear when turning you have to drop the shock so you can move the suspension from all the way down. You want to check it while turning tight each direction both when up and when down. You don't need to have the shock off to check the down if the wheels are off the ground, it should sag to its max down position. When its in this position, measure from lower shock mount bolt to mount bolt of the shock. Also measure how much shock shaft length is available for compression. Then when you remove the shock, move the suspension up until the measurment between the shock mounting bolt holes is equal to your extended measurment of the shock minus the available shock shaft that was available for compression. Its when the suspension is at its raised position that you want to also check the ball joint bolt clearance when turned tight right and left.

I'll look to see if I still have my pictures of what I did to the swing arm. When you reinforce the swing arm, also move the lower shock mount out towards the wheel as fas as you can. This will lessen the twisting forces that are torquing the swing arm. Rocmoc sujested this quite a while back. It was a good call.

Lenny

[charlie]

Well if I move my rear shock mounts back I wonder what it will do to my set up with the air shock I like the way it drives now and I think I could move the I think my shocks are 2 -3 inches longer than needed I'm sure ill have to adjust pressure and what not

[nocturnalsixer]

All this information should be stickied... I plan on doing this.. Charlie i know what you mean lol it's that cold here plus windy so all i want to do is stay inside house and abandon my projects for now until may or so

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[Guest Lenny]

I guess I didn't make my self clear. What I refering to is to move the bottom shock mount to the side, closer to the tire. You won't be changing the distance it is from the swing arms pivot point. As a result, you are not changing your suspension geometry. If your suspension is working good now it will continue to work the same. On mine, the inside lower shock tab is flush with the outside edge of the swing arms side. The outside tab is cantilevered out past this point torwards the tire. I then ran a piece of steel from under the outside tab down to the lower part of the swing arm to give it support. I basically got the lower part of my shock as close to the tire as I could without creating problems. If you reinforce your swing arm by boxing it, you should also add some reinforcement from the end of the boxed section to the two pivot sleeves. Now that the swing arm will no longer flex from torsion forces, all stress will shift to the weak ends connecting the pivot sleeves. They will flex enough to see failure sooner or later. I run mine pretty hard over the rough stuff so I probably get more trouble then most. My swing arms tore loose from the sleeves. I won't get into the next part fo then reinforcing the frame where the swing arm pivot tabs are, But after I had the swing arms super solid all the way to the pivot sleeves, I then broke off the frame tube that the pivot point tabs weld to. That happened at the last Jamboree. If your interested in what I did just holler.

Lenny

[charlie]

thanx for clearing that up Lenny I understand better now

[Guest Lenny]

I posted swing arm fixes under pinned unique fixes but no picturres yet until I find a way to upload them. http://www.utvboard.com/topic/1242-unique-fixes/?p=16936

Pictures are now posted

Lenny

[Kinarfi]

I took a short video of my work and added a few captions, but mostly just a lousy video. I did have problems making the new dust boots stay on when the wheels were turned all the way, so I tied a string to the threads of the screws that tighten the clamps on them so they couldn't pull off, seems to work. If my geometry classes are correct, having a 1 inch toe in two feet in front of the wheels would be the same at the wheels or behind the wheels, and it's a lot easier to adjust when you can see the tapes moving. Also pulled the A arms way up to check the ball joint bolts for clearance and the upper bolts don't seem to have the problems the lower ones did, they have plenty of room.

Kinarfi

video is on Utube

[Guest Lenny]

Everybody should keep in mind that the toe changes some as the suspension goes thru its travel. I like to set up my tow when the suspension is at its normal ride heigth. If the suspension is at the bottom of its travel, when you set up the tow, then you may want to consider allowing for the change when it moves to its normal heigth. Tow set is to a degree, a matter of what you like. More tow will tend to cause the rear to slide out on hard accelerating turns whereas less tow will tend to cause the front end to skid or underturn in corners. It sort of depends on how you drive. At least, this is how i found it to work me. For my set up, I put my tow at about a 1/4" - 3/8" difference between the center distances at the rear of tires compaired to the center distance at the front.

Lenny

[Kinarfi]

http://www.ozebiz.com.au/racetech/theory/align.html

http://www.vw-resource.com/toe_in_adjustment.html

http://www.hummerknowledgebase.com/susp/string.html

After reading Lenny's post and thinking about it, I have decided to have less toe in also, perhaps the .98" specs is designed to compensate for some of the problems that we have striven to eliminate, such as steering looseness, and being as every thing on mine is tight again and will hopefully stay that way. I have also noticed that the front tires have less tread on the outer edges.

I think rocmoc made a mention of using string for doing the alignment, but I didn't get the jest of the method until I read the 3rd link, looks like a simple, functional method. The other links are just good information and educational. Maybe I'll add a few photos later today.

[Kinarfi]

Some 'interesting' data,

I strung a string around the wheels and got some unexpected results and decided to see what I could figure out about it, so I started by seeing how far out of vertical my wheels were, Trooper just sitting on the garage floor, I started but soon realized the bulge at the bottom was messing me up so l pumped all the tires up to near 30#s and started over using a framing square, right front leans out ~ 7/16" and measured 0° 50', right rear leans in ~ 1 1/2" and measured 2° 20', left rear leans in ~ 1 3/16 and measured 1° 30' and left front leans in ~ 7/8" and measured 1° 20' (IF I READ EVERY THING CORRECTLY!!!)

Another thing that didn't make sense was the string touching the front of the front tires, but not the back, since I know there is toe in, so I measured the distance between the brake rotors, 52 1/4 rear, 50 1/2 front, that explains the string thing.

On another forum I frequent, one of the fellow suggests, sometime close enough is perfect, so I left every thing as was and these thing run on dirt, not pavement (most of the time), s so before I get carried away with this, I'm going to take if for a ride.

[Guest Lenny]

When I did mine, I found my front wheels leaned different too. You can balance that by adjusting either both the bottom or both the top heims joints on the a-frames. I got mine matched up. Like you say, it will show up the most on the pavement. When my front was off, I felt insecure at speed on the pavement. It just didn't feel stable. It feels much better now.

Lenny

[bruhaw]

Kinarfi - thanks for the video and advice on alignment. You too Lenny. Also, liked the music you had playing. Good tunes.

[Kinarfi]

You Are Welcome!! I have the left overs from my sons EZ-Up, so I took one of the corner that slide up & down and cut off the ends at an angle and went under went under the front and slid the pieces out so they hit rims, marked how for out it went in the front and in the back and measured the difference, about 5/16" . I'll take a photo tomorrow. and post it.

[nocturnalsixer]

Thanks for the tutorial..I'll be doing this in the springtime

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[Kinarfi]

I replaced all 8 Heim joints in the front end of my Trooper last year and yesterday while rolling along, the Trooper kept trying to go left, I stopped to see why and the right tire was turned in badly, the forward lower right side heim joint had sheared off. I was way out there and only one person came by, but I had it patched as well as I could all ready, I now carry a couple of the old heim joints.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/d1fnuntei5anr2n/sXqGsh5roN

or one at a time

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pyo6humsesfu8qa/20130626_162347.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/m3gz2ogxynz606u/20130626_162354.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2qh8791jx5bkilv/20130626_162416.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xocepelotcjhx8n/20130626_171919.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/65bmvk0tjn5x3ep/20130626_171929.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/czb85v9lpkoxzv5/20130626_181643.jpg

The last photo shows how I had to mount the temporary old heim joint in, it is my guess that the new joint sheared because I had forced it in with a spacer on each side instead of both on the same side as in the last photo. It seem to me that this is not a good set up because if you screw either joint in or out, you change the distance from hole center to hole center and if they don't match the mount centers, you get what I did, sheared bolt and nearly stranded out in the booneys with night coming on.

Please take a look or a photo of how your's mounts and post

Thanks

Kinarfi

[Kinarfi]

I've been having a nasty little clunk in the front end for some time and I blamed it my front shocks topping out after "sharp bumps" like a 3" rocks or even smaller. I called FOA and asked them what they thought it was and they agreed that the shocks were topping out and told me to put limiting straps on. They gave me the impression that limit straps standard. I wish I had thought about the need for limiting strap when I was ordering them, I would have added an inch or two and then limited it to as much as I can handle, now I have to give up some of my travel to get the limiting so they don't top out any more. Oh WELL, that's life.

[nocturnalsixer]

I've been having a nasty little clunk in the front end for some time and I blamed it my front shocks topping out after "sharp bumps" like a 3" rocks or even smaller.  I called FOA and asked them what they thought it was and they agreed that the shocks were topping out and told me to put limiting straps on. They gave me the impression that limit straps standard. I wish I had thought about the need for limiting strap when I was ordering them, I would have added an inch or two and then limited it to as much as I can handle, now I have to give up some of my travel to get the limiting so they don't top out any more.  Oh WELL, that's life.

Thanks for the input that's useful to know... aftermarket shocks call for limiting straps I'll need to remember that.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2