help with no start T-2 1999

[justme254]

My Trooper was stolen police just said 'it was in the edge of the lake'. What a bummer but I did get it back. I can not get the fuel pump or fan to cycle with key turn.I have replaced everything I could using parts from my other T-2 which used to run until parts swapping as listed I have changed:key ,aftermarket Warn Winch control box,every relay,every fuse, battery, computer box.

Before I changed these I had no lights ,no crank ,no fan ,no fuel pump, gauges did work but that was it when you turned the new ignition key. The aftermarket Warn Winch would click with key cycles before replacement now it does work but wont click when I turn the key [as it should be],also the gauges were cycling properly.

Now after changing one thing after another checking each time I changed a part I have lights,winch,and now it cranks but no fuel pump or fan cycle.I know it wont start without those,so with the key in on position jumped power to the fuel pump then both the fan and the fuel pump worked but no fuel pressure showing on gauge.I have spent hours checking the wiring harness and found on ground wire under the shifter plastic which I scraped the paint off then reinstalled.Another ground was on the engine near the starter. I rechecked all the fuses. I have power to the relays behind the seat all three of them. Again it cranks but no fan or fuel pump.Compression is good they put 8 to 10 miles on it. I have drained the fuel then added new fuel.

I am sure I can get it to go over 60 mph again if I push it off a cliff.

I got it back so no insurance help.I live in Alaska where there are no dealers of any ATV's UTV's.Please tell me what else to try. I am at wits end and yes guys I am female but have worked as a auto mechanic in the past.I cant take it to someone else I must fix this.Any ideas?

[bigdan120]

Well if you jumped the wiring to the fuel pump and the fan and fuel pump ran it sounds like a relay..Not sure. If you have no fuel pressure when you jumped the power to the pump you either have a bad filter cloged line or bad gauge cheap stuff first..If thats not it then pump. The no fan and no pump like I said sounds like a relay..But I know the computer runs these so I am not sure. THere are other guys on here that know more then me about these and I am I am sure they will chime in..We will get it running......

[justme254]

I thought the same that's why all relays were replaced with known working ones,4 -three behind the seat and one under the dash . Am I missing any? I looked for pinched wires.The fuel pressure my be low because the line is full of air I will fix that when the pump works like it should.Thanks for the encouragement!

[bigdan120]

I dont think so..I think thast all of them....Is everything else have power? Spark when you crank itk it and all? If I dont get back to you for awhile it is cause my power just went out...On back up as we speak..LOL

[justme254]

Yes Spark when cranked NOW not before computer was replaced.Sorry about the power but I understand. Also this is inside a heated garage and has been since it was returned.

[bigdan120]

I woiuld hope in a heated garage Alaska..LOL....Anyways...check power from theck the power to the switched side of the relays..Maybe there not getting power from the switch..Then check the power that supplies the relay with power...Just saying I dont know if you did this already...

[frankielocs]

You should take off the fuse box ussually a wire gets melted in the back and is tricky to see (commen problem) would replace it with a in-line fuse and soter the wires, also i would recomend run a ground wire to the computer,check the connection to those wires

I hope this helps

[justme254]

Tested from front and back of fuses/fuse box more than once and have installed new fuses and new relays.That was the first place I checked then rechecked after computer install and again just to make sure.It had some mud in it but no wires burnt or disconnected. Of course a heated garage is there another kind? The garage is as warm as my house.

I don't want to start changing wires as I progress forward it has run fine right out of the crate,maybe later.I have not tried a ground wire to the computer.It seems to me it is rubber mounted not grounded for a reason but I will try anything thank you though

[justme254]

I have also spent a long time uncovering every place the wires are covered and checking the wire harness for worn or pinched wires. It was not easy to do.

Just the computer was $700.00 bucks plus fed ex $85.00 I don't know what you might pay but that's not cheap and helped but did not fix it.No crank before computer replacement.

[Guest Lenny]

Check the connectors going to the computer. On mine I had a pin that had pushed in and the mating connector couldn't make contact with that pin. As Bigdan 120 said, check the power going to the relays that run the pump and fan. Not only the main power that gets switched to the pump and fan but the power that actuates the relays solenoid. Put a meter on it. I think that the computer grounds the solenoid coil to activate it so if you disconect the wire going to the solenoid that comes form the computer, the computer wire should show open. When you turn the key on, the wire should show continunity to ground for a moment. If the computer is sending 12v to the relay solenoid instead, you should see 12v for a moment. With the wire from the computer disconnected, run a hot wire to the hot side of the solenoid and see if the relay turns power on to the pump or fan. Just isolate each electrical event one at a time and manually step it thru its process to check its proper functioning. A number of forum members here have had their ignition switches fail. Pull it and check it with a meter. Does the pump run when you run a hot wire directly to it? How about the fan? With them both not running, its probably the power going to them. Either the computer isn't turning the solenoids on and off or there is an electrical problem. The answer is somewhere on this forum or available from forum member. Keep your old computer, it may be fine. And yes, the computer outter aluminum frame should be grounded. I had mne quit once and when I accidently grounded it when I was working on it, everything worked again. unground it and it wouldn't. I know, go figure, just ground it.

A female mechanic in Alaska, makes me feel like a wimp.

Lenny

[justme254]

I checked carefully both the new computer pins and connector. The old computer has a rattle like something came loose inside of it. I have checked all three relays for continuity they work fine so far .I say that because that is where all power seems fine.With just a hot lead to one side of the fuel pump it ran both the fan and the fuel pump.I keep rechecking fuses and the relays every time I use the jumper wire.No real fuel pressure but that may be air in the line.

The fan sounds awful but spins fast enough.I don't need a fan up here but I know that it is part of the complete key on cycle so yes I turn the key gauges cycle stater turns motor well but no power at fuel pump and this may be why the fan wont turn on as it is hooked to the fuel pump circuit that has no power. I spent hours looking at the wiring harness and see nothing[yet] I will just keep trying. The Joyner[right now I call it other UN-postable words] is not going to win this battle. Yes I don't ever carry a purse but almost always have my 12 gauge instead for Bears.I don't mean to make you feel like a wimp in any way but yes I am one tough cookie. I wouldn't last 2 hours in a big city though so I am wimpy in a big city.

[Guest Lenny]

Ok. I didn't hear you specifically say that you are getting a signal from the computer to trigger the relay or is that included in your statement above. If your are, the problem is much easier. Not to infer that your not being complete in your checking I want to clear up your situation in my own mind. The relay has 4 wires going to it. A heavy 12 volt supply wire going in and a heavy 12v wire going out. These 2 are connected when the relay actuates to turn on whatever. There are 2 small wires going to the solenoid part of the relay. One of these goes directly to the computer. This wire could be either the 12v side in which case the other small wire goes to ground or it could be the ground side in which case the other wire goes to 12v thru a fuse someplace. The wire going to the computer should be an open line not connecting to either ground or power when the key is off. When you turn on the ignition switch, the wire going to the computer should now either show a momentary connection to ground or 12v. This is the signal I want to know if your getting. If your getting that, its then just a step thru of each event from there looking for a bad wire or something not completing its task like the relay failing or not getting main power. Also make sure your pump and fan are getting good ground and that the engine has a ground wire directly from the battery. Don't trust the engine ground to go thru the frame. Make sure your new relays are actually connection the 2 heavy wires when the solenoid actuates. Even the good relays these days come from the C. H. Ina company so you never can be sure. Your old computer could be ok. Take it apart to see what is rattling.

Don' mean to make this so detailed but when your slow like I am, you have to take each step one at a time in sort of slow motion. If you read my other post, you will see I always use up more then my share of words to explain something. By the way, no Trooper wins the battle on this forum so hang in there. You can point that shotgun away from me now, I promise to keep trying to help and don't worry, I'm not really a wimp.

Lenny

[Kinarfi]

Hi, Welcome to the forum, I'd love to help you and SEE Alaska, however.

Go to the pinned Part, Pieces and Info thread, scroll to the bottom of the first post, and down load the schematic for ECU, or use this one http://www.utvboard.com/gallery/image/861-trooper-ecu-wiring-diagram/

The relays have +12v on one side of the coil and the ground is suppied by the computer to activate the relays.

Unplug your computer and using the pin out, try powering up the different items so you know if it's the wiring or the computer, for instance, to check the fan and fuel pump, jumper from ground to pin 67 to turn on the main power relay, then also jumper from ground to to pin 69, this should turn on the fuel pump, that in turn powers up the fan relay. http://www.utvboard.com/gallery/image/862-2009-joyner-trooper-wiring/

As for you old computer, you can open it up and see how badly damaged it is or send it to me and I'll take a look and see what it looks like and if I feel good about, I'll put in my trooper and test it. PM me.

As suggest before, Troopers have a bad habit of have the relay connection burn up under the relay box, I believe it's the lugs not being crimped onto the wires properly that causes this, so unmount the relay/fuse box and examine the wires underneath to see if any show signs of getting hot.

Hope this helps, keep us up to date and were all here to help each other.

Kinarfi

What part of Alaska?

On your new computer, use some good silicone and seal all the edges, I had a good post on this, but where I had my photos closed.

Do you have a manual?

[justme254]

Thank you for having this site there is not another one this helpful thanks guys.

Yes Lenny I do get the signal,yes I agree it must be one stupid wire,and yes thanks I will install new ground wires from the engine. The main ground wire I see is hooked to a bolt that goes into the aluminum transmission housing. This from the beginning has not seemed to be the way to ground the wire harness so I will work on that.One wire that's what I have been looking for one wire pinched or worn.I agree.I do visit the lower 48 states but cant wait to get home I guess Alaska gets into your heart and mind after a while.

Yes Kinarfi I did try that after reading your post and you are right pin 67 and 69 have power when key is turned[power up cycle]. I have another Trooper and will try that old computer in it once I solve this thanks though. The fuse box is disconnected to see the back and I keep switching the relays around I thought the same thing what if a relay failed[or a fuse] while I am doing this ,it is not that[yet].

I may end up running a new wire from the starter to the fuel pump and that will complete the circuit and make the fan run also.[power jumped to fuel pump made fan turn].

I will seal the computer with silicone good idea. I have a Owners manual and parts manual[both in same book] but the Chinese translation is off in places so I do have to guess what they are saying such as dipping beam must be low beam headlights].

Thanks for the diagram again though guys,the one I have it is so tiny I had to try to guess what the tiny blurry printed things said. A friend thought I was nuts using a magnifier to try to read it.

Every idea you guys have posted is helpful and it reassures me I am not missing something I don't know about and it also tells me I was trying to fix this in the same way you guys would.I will post a photo later and show you my camo Trooper with a heated cab and Mattracks or tracked wheels. I also installed a dead switch so it cant be stolen again. It took them less than 2 minutes to steal it.Off to install all your great ideas and I hope to tell you it is running very soon.

Thanks everyone E-ya soon

[justme254]

sorry I said 1999 it is a 2009 but anyone who knows Joyners must know I was wrong,I cant change the post title. I have a small heater core and a fan for inside the insulated cab.

Kinarfi asked what part of Alaska I am at,South Central Alaska but way out in the woods along the Iditarod trail sled dog/Irondog route. The closest store for food is 32 miles down the trail where a Gallon of milk is $12.00 hamburger[frozen] is $ 9.00 a pound,a gallon of distilled water costs $7.00,I could not live anywhere else despite the downfalls here I love it. I sure dont have the problems you guys have I have different ones to operate vehicles in below zero tempratures.

[Guest Lenny]

Starting to feel like a wimp again. I assume you hunt for most of your meat. We used the word tough but I not sure that is a good enough work. Good looking Joyner. Oh, Kinarfi, I siliconed my computer being sure to get all the openings but I have a problem. My keybord keys are all stuck and I can't get the CD drive door open anymore. Am I doing something wrong? I did what you said.

Lenny

[justme254]

Yes no store bought meat. I can get food but I am trying to find a tube of [good] silicone and some thicker gauge wire and that is real hard. My family owns 4 Joyner's that's why I can steal parts for now. We have 2 T-2's and 2 R-4's.I cheat a little I guess I do have broadband over satellite and cable TV. I love my iPhone now we have service near here. Having the web has changed my life [for better or worse I am not sure yet] but I would never get to hear from such helpful people with out my laptop. Sub modern bush living.Thanks it looks good [the Trooper] and I take very good care of it so it is a genuine imitation Chinese machine but the prices were right. Yes the Alaska State Troopers found my Trooper.

In a week or so I will tell you how the repairs go. Thanks to everyone who responded.

[Guest Lenny]

The computer is fine without the silicone unless its getting wet or your exposed to a lot of dust which can get in it. You can always wrap it in plastic to seal it. That would work fine, just do a water tight job as best you can. Good luck.

Lenny

[Kinarfi]

Starting to feel like a wimp again. I assume you hunt for most of your meat. We used the word tough but I not sure that is a good enough work. Good looking Joyner. Oh, Kinarfi, I siliconed my computer being sure to get all the openings but I have a problem. My keybord keys are all stuck and I can't get the CD drive door open anymore. Am I doing something wrong? I did what you said.

Lenny

That will only happens in Hurricane, I should have made that stipulation, hope you get it fixed soon.

[bigdan120]

Let us know what you find might be something someone might run into here Good Luck.....Keep us posted........

[justme254]

It was the wire harness ground wire. It bolted to the transmission bell housing which is alloy metal not steel and the engine and transmission are in a way just rubber mounted. The answer was so simple I did not think of trying it first. I took a ground wire off a Subaru battery bolted it under where the wires were bolted to transmission housing as ground, then scraped the paint and at first just clamped it to metal,later bolted it down to the frame steel. Works fine now cycles up starts runs fine. The one wire it needed was a new ground wire from frame to transmission.

Now I can change the fluids and do some greasing. I have to use grease that wont freeze at -20 below and I use a small amount of 80-90 weight oil but mostly 5w-30w diesel engine oil Delo brand. Any 80 90 w oil its thicker than honey at very low temperatures it will not work at all but where you are at is different.I also use graphite to lubricate all the cables I took them loose on one end and filled them with the graphite. I bought it at a Ford dealership it is called Dry Film Lubricant Ford part number E2SZ-19553-A.So it runs but I wont drive it yet. Thank you for all the suggestions it kept me from pulling my hair out. It was so simple I will now attach a new ground cable to all my Joyners.I do not have the problems you do as far as heat at the back of the fuse box but I have mounted both the fuse box and the ECM with zip-lock bags over them it is not water tight but will keep mud and snow off of them. Thanks again guys keep the shinny side up

[Kinarfi]

One more little request as to where you are at, how about some GPS coordinates.

Good job, think I'll check my engine ground just to make sure, and don't hesitate chime back in from time to time.

[bigdan120]

Nice......Hey wen't to a RV show today..Was looking at a John Deere Utility Vehicle.. Guess whats under the HOOD....3 cylinder CHERY LOL! For anyone that didnt already know this.......Also I am paying way to much for insurance through Foremost almost 500 a year for liability...Its through Erie...I talked to Farmers rep today..They had the John Deere...Anyways Farmers owns Foremost..He said get a quote directly from them and it will save money...I will let you guys know...500 a year is freaking crazy..My 2001 aztec I drive on the road everyday is only 440.. a year...Time will tell...

[Guest Lenny]

There should a seperate ground for the engine and one for the frame. If you just ground the frame you can get a potential differance that can cause problems. To explain, when the frame is grounded to the battery, and the engine is grounded to the frame, the engine could carry a small electrical charge. If you were to put a volt meter on the frame and check it to ground, it shouldn't show any voltage. However if the ground to the engine thru the frame is poor or has to travel a long way from the engine thru the frame to battery ground, you might find that a meter from the engine to the battery ground might show a small voltage. This is the potential differance. We all have at one time or another went to grab a door handle and got a shock. Even though you are standing on the floor and the door hangs on the wall which is also connected to the floor, you might think everything should be the same but you get a shock because one of the two items is carrying a charge. It almost always the person that pocked up a charge. There is a potential differance between you and the door handle. I know, where did this all come from. While sat back after working all day in my shop and felt like gabbing a bit.

Lenny

[bigdan120]

So are you saying run one ground from engine to frame then one ground from engine to battery - ? AKA Lost lol

[Guest Lenny]

So are you saying run one ground from engine to frame then one ground from engine to battery - ? AKA Lost lol

One heavy ground wire from battery to the frame and another heavy ground wire from the battery to the engine. Two seperate cables. I use a junction terminal at the engine. All items related to the running of the engine such as computer ground, sensor grounds etc. all go to the engine ground terminal. All other things like gauge lights and gauge grounds along with relay grounds and the like can go to the frame. If the computer is sending say a 5 volt signal to a sensor for example and looking for a variable return voltage to tell the computer what something is doing so it can make a decision for proper running, the last thing you want is a potential differance changing that value being returned back to the computer.

Lenny

[Kinarfi]

Nice......Hey wen't to a RV show today..Was looking at a John Deere Utility Vehicle.. Guess whats under the HOOD....3 cylinder CHERY LOL! For anyone that didnt already know this.......Also I am paying way to much for insurance through Foremost almost 500 a year for liability...Its through Erie...I talked to Farmers rep today..They had the John Deere...Anyways Farmers owns Foremost..He said get a quote directly from them and it will save money...I will let you guys know...500 a year is freaking crazy..My 2001 aztec I drive on the road everyday is only 440.. a year...Time will tell...

81.32/year for the Trooper State Farm, the also have my house, RV and Yukon and I have an excellent driver's record.

[Guest Lenny]

Is your Trooper covered also or just liability coverage?

Lenny

[bigdan120]

One heavy ground wire from battery to the frame and another heavy ground wire from the battery to the engine. Two seperate cables. I use a junction terminal at the engine. All items related to the running of the engine such as computer ground, sensor grounds etc. all go to the engine ground terminal. All other things like gauge lights and gauge grounds along with relay grounds and the like can go to the frame. If the computer is sending say a 5 volt signal to a sensor for example and looking for a variable return voltage to tell the computer what something is doing so it can make a decision for proper running, the last thing you want is a potential differance changing that value being returned back to the computer.

Lenny

Oh ok I was being stupid........Thanks! I have my bad days lol!

[bigdan120]

Lenny Both are liability only.....

Is your Trooper covered also or just liability coverage?