Driveline Brake

[2scoops]

We are still burried in snow here and I am an avid snowboarder, so I haven't played with the UTV's at all this winter. Items I would like to do prior to UTV season are:

I need to install my new swaybar (stiffer) in the T2, raise my rear differential (went about an inch too low), and I have been playing with ideas on how to make it a better rock crawler.

I don't want to get rid of the manual transmission, but I am want to take the T2 in places where a manual transmission and low torque motor don't belong. So, I need some hand controls. My final verdict, but I am open to suggestions, is a hand brake on the shifter which will be hooked to a driveline brake rotor. With this I can get 4 wheel braking, it should be relatively simple, and safe (as opposed to a hand throttle). I also trust my right foot better than I do my hand when reving the motor in jolting/bouncing situations. I thought of a cutting brake, but I really want 4 wheel braking. I will be in situations where only 3 wheels will be touching. Any suggestions? Thoughts?

[Guest Lenny]

A couple of years ago I installed a one piece front drive shaft and while doing so, I added a motorcycle front brake rotor and caliper. I use it as my parking brake but have found it very handy in holding when I'm on a steep grade. Another big advantage it gives you is that it has to go through the gearing in the differentials which makes it quite powerful and of course, 4 wheel braking. The front brake off a motorcycle is designed to work with a hand lever. Keep in mind that a caliper on one side of the brake, when applied, tends to want to bend the drive shaft. I use a half moon type polyethlyne block that counters this force. It sets rignt against the shaft and has a greese gitting on it to help. Before the greese fitting, It would get hot enough to melt the poly. NOw it seems to work fine. Without it you will get a shimmy in the braking when applied when moving.

As far as making your Trooper more rock crawl frendly, you can change the pinion gears in the differentials to renegade pinions if you can find them. No need to change the ring gear. This will give you a 1/15 lower gear ratio and it is noticeable. I have that setup in mine. Another thing you can do is to change out the differentials. I refuse to give up being able to lock both front and rear diffs and haven't found anything from the automotive side that will work. There is a diff that I think would be perfect but I havn't persued it yet. Check this out, http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/504389618/2_speed_1100cc_UTV_lock_differential.html It would probably take a little modification of things to get it in but you would have a super low granny gear. Ah, a 10 speed tanny with 2 reverse. I'll contact my source to see what availabity would be along with some dimensional drawings for evualations. I've been wanting to check into this for some time now anyway.

Lenny

[charlie]

Lenny ur ideas r Awsome if I hit the lotto I'm gonna send u my trooper with an open check tell u what I want out of it then just let u go crazy with ur ideas lol

[2scoops]

That differential is really cool. It looks a little wide for UTV applications, but I can think of a few other projects I would be interested in using it in.

The best idea I have right now for mounting the hand break would be on vertically on the shift lever. The only place better would be on the steering wheel, but I cant think of how that would be possible. In order to mount it vertically I was thinking about using a hydraulic mt. bike brake lever or a cable lever hooked to a master cylinder.

I don't plan on using it for breaking while moving. I really just need something to hold me on an incline while I get the RPM's up and release the clutch.

[bruhaw]

2Scoops - what are you using for a clutch. Have you upgraded because if you climb then you are probably smoking that clutch some. Just wanted to see what you are using? Did you upgrade to the Kevlar package from Silver Bullet?

[Kinarfi]

If any one gets the spec on the differential on post #2 and it's something you can pass on, I'll see if I can post it in the Parts, pieces and info post.

Kinarfi

[Guest Lenny]

  On 2/27/2013 at 6:23 AM, Kinarfi said:

If any one gets the spec on the differential on post #2 and it's something you can pass on, I'll see if I can post it in the Parts, pieces and info post.

Kinarfi

Im working on it. The differential is wider and this is my biggest concern. That means shorter axels or wider wheel hubs. Shorter axels for me with 14-1/2" of travel would be a problem. It would probably work out ok for those with less travel. I'm maxed out with the stock axels so i'll be trying to see if I can reverse my rims to not increase my overall width. The swing arms will require some modification to deal with the wheel spindles being out farther. Our gear ratio is 2.13:1 where as this one is 2:1. The low ratio is 4.5:1. Its overall width is 14-3/4" from end of output shaft to end of opposit output shaft. Stock is 10" from shaft end to end. So it's 4-3/4" wider or 2-3/8" per side. It is available under special order with the same output spline as we currently use. Despite the issues, I can see rock crawling very slow and at nearly an idle. Right now, we still have to sort of work the Trooper harder then we like to rock crawl. Also to have enough power we are forsed to rev it up and slip the clutch to get going which also makes the speed faster then we would like. This differential would allow us to really crawl. Now we would really have a dual purpose machine.

Lenny

[Guest Lenny]

Looked real close at things and decided that putting this differential in will not be for the light hearted. A lot of stuff to change around. Still may do it and if I do, will document it so others could follow. It wil be a lot of work but what a great feature.

Lenny

[Kinarfi]

I doubt that this would work for the drive axle, but drive lines do have splined connections, would this work on axles, say a 10" spline inside a 15" spline with polished surfaces. Or would it create too much weight.

[bigdan120]

Has anyone looked into changing the gears in the tranny? I think as far as hand brake I would take 1 emergecy brake caliper off and add to the driveshaft. Just thinking....

Is it possable to have gears made for rears?

[Guest Lenny]

I have taken a transmission apart for the sole purpose of seeing if the gears could be changed to help gearing. I found that the gears are packed in real tight. To put in a lower gear requires one gear to get bigger or one getting smaller or both. In low gear, the low gear is as small as it can get and there is no room for the mating big gear to get bigger. The same thing may be the case in the differential. You could make the pinion gear smaller (less teeth) but you couldn't make the ring gear bigger (diameter) because the room isn't there. You could possibly make it the same but thicker to take up for the loss in radius of the pinion gear. Possibly you could shim it out.

Stock gearing is a 15 tooth pinion goint to a 32 tooth ring or a 2.13:1 ratio.

Renegade gearing which Bruhall and I run is a 14 tooth pinion to the same 32 tooth ring for a 2.29:1 ratio.

Say you had make a 12 tooth pinion made that would work going to the 32 tooth ring the ratio would be 2.67:1.

I like my Renegade gearing. It does improve the rock crawling and I don't miss the extra top end loss. Figure I don't need to go faster then 50mph anyway. If you run in the sand dunes then for me the gearing keeps 2nd gear to low to spin fast enough on big steep climbs but I have the power. If I run in 3rd, I'm a bit too high and on a long climb can get the power pulled down. This may not be the case for me now that I'm putting out more power then the last time I was at the dunes. I don't run the dunes m uch anyway. Where a good low gear is good for rock crawling, It may put your middle gears on either side of being just right for the power your working with. I thing the trails will work good with both. If you were to top out at 60mph with stock gearing, you would to top out at at 48mph with a 12 tooth pinion. It would be a nice change in low end power for the rocks. Cleaning up your engines ports could maybe give the same increase in power. Doing both with a SB controller and cam would be a big differance and probably pretty nice. A low range would be stil the best and work for all the riding types.

Lenny

[bruhaw]

I like the Renegade gearing with 30" tires. I have the SB fuel controller but have done no porting or other engine mods. Gearing is better for hill climbing as I don't have to be in as low of a gear. I had it out a couple of weeks ago and I was doing 60+ on a fire trail and my rev limiter hit so we can still get to pretty good top end. I had put on the SB controller before I did the gearing and found with 30" tires I didn't have the power and climbing I thought I should with the larger tires. I then went back to running 27" and those seemed fine and after I did the Renegade gearing I switched to the 30". Then I got my mid range power back and had good top end. Then by accident about a month or so ago i figured out when I installed the SB controller on my T4 that one of the fuel injector wires was actually not plugged all the way into the clip and thus it was not firing. That cylinder was black on the piston and when I pulled the wire or fuel injector the engine didn't idle any differently. Basically I was running on 3 cylinders and I don't know how it didn't run like crap but it ran OK. Even at last years Jamboree it was just 3 cylinders. Looking back this was probably my power problem with the 30" tires and I know I was compensating some for it because I had the SB fuel controller programmed pretty rich. I also have a air fuel gauge so I know I was running it rich. Either way I did the gearing and am sticking with it. Also did Lenny's kits and they made a world of difference in the free play on the stock diffs. Tough part of all of this is finding Renegade ring and pinions. Thanks to Rocmoc for the one he sold me at last years Jamboree and for Lenny letting me know there was one on Ebay. Haven't seen any since and only other way is to by the whole Renegade diff. and that ends up costing a little more. Looking forward to next week at the Jamboree.

[charlie]

I don't have renegade gears but I do have 30" tires , sb program and Lenny's kits in the diffs so far I am happy but some gear options would b nice