Rewiring and replacing Relays

[Kinarfi]

Went for a ride the other day and got to a place where I needed 4WD and didn't have it, It was an electrical problem that started in Moab, seems I didn't have it there either. I managed to jumper a couple of connections and got it back and headed on up the trail into some thawed over frozen ground on some side hill and couldn't get back up the slope and was getting into an area I didn't want to be in, STUCK and up against a tree on a rock. I also found that if the stock winch is used a lot, the contactor gets real hot and the spring collapses and won't do it's job of pushing the plunger up to make a good contact and you lose on of the functions. I kept losing ground, so I decided to use the winch to gem myself out and my wife started dragging the cable out to hook on to a tree and then when I tried to reel in, I couldn't because I had got the winch hot at Moab. My winch, 2008, came with welding style connectors, so I reversed the connection and pulled my rig off the rock I had high centered on and up the hill far enough to get out and headed on down the road.

Got home and decided to clean up my wiring, so the fuse block at the passenger's knees got taken out and moved to the front. I am also cleaning up the rats nest I made up front and I am replacing the rest of the relays with FETs, I put a highly modified wiring diagram in the gallery which will probably get replaced and I'll add some photos when I get done, but it should more trouble free and easier to work on when done. I'm also replacing the winch relays with FETs,I'll have to really test that at home before I head into the hills. I'll be adding more to this thread as I progress.

Kinarfi

[2scoops]

First of all I am glad you made it out. I too was having wiring issues with my 4x4. When I would turn on my lights my 4x4 would intermitently spazm on & off. I chased all the wires back to the fuse block in the passenger area. I cleaned everything up & everything has been working great since.

[charlie]

Not to sound dumb but what an FET kinarfi

[Kinarfi]

Field Effect Transistor capable of switching 75 amps (package limited)

Nearly finished, photos tomorrow.

[Kinarfi]

Here's a fuzzy photo of my relay and fuse block, one end of each fuse is screwed to the aluminum channel which is isolated from ground and when I turn the key on, Ign1, the whole rail becomes my 12v buss via a 30 amp fuse, this buss feeds every thing that was in the fuse box under the dash plus extras and It has 10 FET (relays). there are also 4 fuses on top that are hot all the time. I also moved the winch driver up front. It will all get tested tomorrow and I'll add a few more photos.

[charlie]

Nice job

[Tinman]

Very nice Kinarfi. It seems that a bunch of us has problems with overheated wiring. I changed the fuse panel behind my back seat and will do my front one soon too.

[Kinarfi]

Thanks Tinman and Charlei.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/12-VDC-Golf-Cart-Winch-Tractor-Continuous-Duty-Solenoid-Relay-/251257396423?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a801b9cc7

My attempt to replace my stock winch control relay with FETs failed - badly - started unwinding the winch and balled it all up, had to remove the winch and then disassemble to get the cable unballed.

I bought 6 of these relays and when I get them mounted, I'll take some photo and post them in my dropbox https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4xkq03yr5nzf81w/H235IvVSJY , I'll also have more photos of how I put this fuse block together any one wants to copy it.

[Kinarfi]

Got some photos taken and loaded, if interested, I can put notes on the photos or explain what I did if asked to.

[nocturnalsixer]

Did you get the front relays for winch figured out?

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[Guest Lenny]

Thanks Tinman and Charlei.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/12-VDC-Golf-Cart-Winch-Tractor-Continuous-Duty-Solenoid-Relay-/251257396423?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a801b9cc7

My attempt to replace my stock winch control relay with FETs failed - badly - started unwinding the winch and balled it all up, had to remove the winch and then disassemble to get the cable unballed.

I bought 6 of these relays and when I get them mounted, I'll take some photo and post them in my dropbox https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4xkq03yr5nzf81w/H235IvVSJY , I'll also have more photos of how I put this fuse block together any one wants to copy it.

This relay may not be enough. I found that you really need a relay that will handle 500-600 amps. When the winch is really pulling, it can draw a lot. High amp winch relays are easily found on Ebay. A good relay will cost more like $50-$60. Get a good one and don't try to do it on the cheap, it will just burn out.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Winch-Relay-Solenoid-12V-500Amps-5000lb-to-12000lb-/260691795713?hash=item3cb2711f01&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WINCH-SOLENOID-12V-HEAVY-DUTY-DD-Replacement-Upgrade-Winch-Control-Accessories-/370778178028?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item56541a01ec&vxp=mtr

You can find wireless remote controls for the winch also on Ebay. A wireless remote doesn't carry much load as it only has to have enough to activate the winch relays solenoids.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1311.R3.TR7.TRC1.A0.Xwireless+winch.TRS0&_nkw=wireless+winch+remote+control&_sacat=0&_from=R40

[Kinarfi]

Did you get the front relays for winch figured out?

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Yes, I have it set up so you activate 2 relays for each direction and then also added a loop under the winch at the bottom of the frame so I have something to hook to so I can use a snatch block if I need to.

While I agree with Lenny, previous post, I have found that these relays pull at least 2 amps at 12 volts and that ends up being 24 watts of heat in a small consolidated package and can get hot enough to be uncomfortable to the touch if not hot enough to self destruct if energized for an extended time, however, even if the winch line is all the way out, by the time you have reeled it in all the way, it should not be that hot.

The one definite disadvantage of using 4 separate contactors is that if both in and out functions is activated at the same time, you have a short across the battery. With the store bought units that Lenny referenced, that can not happen, assuming they work like the stock unit but better.

I also added the wiring diagram to the Drop Box photo album

[nocturnalsixer]

That's interesting i don't know if that matters but i noticed on my 18' tilt flatbed i have installed 12000 lb winch on it and it used 6 circuit breakers in series on the positive battery post. Is that to protect from short across battery and for overload protection? I'm considering upgrading my winch to wired/wireless combo

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[Kinarfi]

FYI, while I did buy 6 solenoids, I only used 4 for my winch, the other 2 are for future use, circuit breakers in series doesn't make sense, adding the wireless set up is easy, just order one of those inexpensive 2 channel remote ( http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Channel-RF-Wireless-Transmitter-Remote-Control-315MHz-/290625881151?pt=US_Lighting_Parts_and_Accessories&hash=item43aaa7043f ) this is the one I'm using, I like the fact that the black piece slides up over the button. To wire it, you tap into the wire going to the middle of the dash switch and tie it to both commons of the relays on the remote and the 12 in terminal, then take one wire from each of the N.O. and tie them to the other two wires coming off the dash switch, now tie the - 12 terminal to ground.

added some text to the first photo in my Dropbox, https://www.dropbox.com/sh/igosl0dr7qf9e91/z-rcIQ68ZH

[Kinarfi]

redid the fuse blob behind the added photos to drop box, redrawing the schematic, will post when done, good night

[lowgear]

I went to a wireless remote 4 or 5 years ago, for me it was the best way just bolt on the new winch install power and your done. Everything is in the new winch no external relays to worry about. I also went to the synthetic rope 3/8in 100ft long 14000lb.

[t2lizzard]

I am having trouble with my wiring as well. I have no lights, horn, 4wd actuator. any idea's ?

[nocturnalsixer]

I am having trouble with my wiring as well. I have no lights, horn, 4wd actuator. any idea's ?

Not sure about 4wd actuators but all other and i believe the 4wd actuators fuses and relay are in fusebox under the passenger side dashboard i suggest you check that out and maybe even pull the fusebox off to look at wiring behind it...some people had that area behind fusebox rusted and others had it melted.

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[t2lizzard]

Not sure about 4wd actuators but all other and i believe the 4wd actuators fuses and relay are in fusebox under the passenger side dashboard i suggest you check that out and maybe even pull the fusebox off to look at wiring behind it...some people had that area behind fusebox rusted and others had it melted.

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that's exactly where I found the problem. enough mud stuck in the fuse box terminals so they were not making contact with the fuses. cleaned it out and all is working again. thanks again.

[Kinarfi]

How deep was the mud your were in? May you'd benefit from moving that fuse box up behind the dash, or is that infront of the dash?

It's my opinion that all fuses should be pulled and then put back in periodically so that the sliding in and out action cleans the contact for a better connection.

[nocturnalsixer]

Glad to help and i agree with kinarf because these connections will corrode but even better would be to upgrade to sealed buss fuse box like the one i got from plumber i have been real happy with it since!

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[t2lizzard]

How deep was the mud your were in? May you'd benefit from moving that fuse box up behind the dash, or is that infront of the dash?

It's my opinion that all fuses should be pulled and then put back in periodically so that the sliding in and out action cleans the contact for a better connection.

not gonna lie, the mud and muskeg was almost as much as the machine could handle. with the diffs locked up it spent a lot of time in first gear. the muskeg up here is particularily bad. its almost like soup when you drive through it. its liquid consistency flows into everything, then when you stop, the fiber traps it in. I had to pull the seats, hood, side plastics, skid plates and back end off to wash it out. it was nasty. not going to be riding that area EVER again. at one point I had to crawl out the passenger side to hook up the winch.