Rear diff. For my 09 trooper T4

[Miguelrmrz]

I blew up my rear differential last weekend and front still works but I felt a lot of play question is Where is the best place to get a new or rebuild rear diff. Or is there any other option besides a joyner differential..

[hfrick]

if its ring and pinion damage I dont believe there is anyone rebuilding...bearings and seals are available..new is currently available,if you fill out the rest of your profile (where are you?) myself or another can likely point you in the closest direction...Hardy ...as a side note just curious how many miles/km on your machine?,when was the last time diffs where serviced? and what happened /lead up to "blowing the diff" ??

[Miguelrmrz]

Im sorry, I new to this, Im in Moreno valley CA, vehicle had 600 miles on it, When i bought it it had 120 miles since then , i have replace the diff. Oil at least 3 times, the first time I removed the oil had a lot of fine metal (dust like)shavings, Before the break I felt the play on it and I attempted to remove it but i had problems loosen up the axel nut on one side and pull the axel from the differential on the other so I refilled the oil and keep driving it, the day of the loss I was driving kind of hard in and out of 4x4 and locking unlocking it, all I heard was I bang like i hit a rock and then notting, (it neutralize on my).i was able to go back to camp on the 4x4 mode so i now the transmission is not the issue, I haven't been able to remove the differential yet to open and inspect the damage.

[hfrick]

you wont know for sure untill you pull it out and apart...but it does sound like the unfortunate all to common problem with the earlier troopers,where the the bolts loosened of (or were never tight) and broke teeth off the ring...there is an upgrade to those diffs if done before blowing up...good news is the new replacement diff does have some minor updates including better bolts...also I run my rig in 4x4 all the time in an attempt to share the stresses on both front and rear drivetrain and lock/unlock diffs when I need more ..I am in Canada and Im pretty sure Trevor at Mudslinger.ca can supply your diff...but I imagine you can find one closer to you ...Hardy

[Kinarfi]

Blew mine up yesterday while at the sand dunes, I'd made a 15 mile run and was on out for a second run and let the air out of the tires because I couldn't climb and was doing a lot better with lockers in and 4X4 in 2nd gear and hard on the throttle trying to get up this hill when I think it dropped a tooth or two and making a nasty clunk clunk. Got turned around and head down and every now and again, the rear end would lock up completely, anyway, got it down off the mountain and on the trailer and home, tomorrow I'll pull it and open it up to see what the damage is.

39°38'20.34"N 112°23'48.97"W is about where I was when it blew.

[hfrick]

Kinarfi...same kind of sound when I launched mine in 4 wheel diff lock,and landed hard on the throttle (WHOOOPS) how many miles/kms are you now up to (I thot you where getting up there) how many diffs have you had to repair? thanks Hardy

[Kinarfi]

I'm close to 20,000 Kilometers & I believe this is my 4 major rear diff failure, first was sheared bolts, then 2nd & 3rd had to do with bearings and now broken pinion teeth and chewed up ring gear and it looks like the spider bell is cracked, plus the bearing aren't smooth any more. Take a look at the photos at

https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/#folders/0ByQAhs0e-yF9bDZFdGtkemRkQVk, on the 4th & 5th photo, notice that one has curved teeth and the other has straight teeth, is there advantage to either one? I'm planning on using the straight cut unit and you can see the crack in the spider bell on photo 6.

I need to order some bolts to tie the spider and others to the ring gear,

pack

96144A227•

Black-Oxide Class 12.9 Socket Head Cap Screw, Alloy Steel, M8 Thread, 40mm Length, 1.25mm Pitch, packs of 50

They come from McMaster-Carr and are as tough as or tougher than anything else I've been able to find, You just have to grind the head down a little for clearance.

Let me know if you can't get to the photos.

[Guest Lenny]

Hi Jeff

The straight cut gears are stronger but make more meshing noise. The curved teeth are for smoother and quitter operation.

Lenny

[Miguelrmrz]

Ok I finaly removed the rear diff.. It seem like the only damage I caused were the 12 or so small bolts,(they all snapped).. everything else looks clean.. (I dont know how to add pics)

[Kinarfi]

order some 91290A442 from McMaster-Carr and disassemble and clean your differential while you wait for them to arrive.

Then you will need to machine them down so they clear the rest of the differential. I'll post a few photo of what I do when I get my parts. Do you have google, post your photos in google drive and provide the link, like I did in post # 7

http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/121/3083/=w0x9dh

[Kinarfi]

I up loaded a few photos.

Miguelrmrz, What are you're plans for your Differential?

[Miguelrmrz]

That looks bad .. I picked up some bolts and a small sheet of thin of bronce, (i want to make shims/washers for the 4 small gears) hopefully wife let me work on it tonite...also do you know were can i look for shims for the two out put shafts..(i want to get rid of some of the play) rigth after this im taking the front apart too (then I finish my electric power steering proyect) and so on.

[Miguelrmrz]

Here is the damage, i figure it out how to add pics , I will add pics of the progress

[ricksrb]

Here is the damage, i figure it out how to add pics , I will add pics of the progress

Miguel,

I see your in Moreno Valley. Not too far from me in Brea. Where do you go riding?

[Miguelrmrz]

High desert abouth her( 26946 Solar Rd Lucerne Valley, CA 92356 United States)

[Kinarfi]

link to my photos, got it 'sussed' finally

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0ByQAhs0e-yF9bDZFdGtkemRkQVk&usp=sharing

[Kinarfi]

At the risk of sounding nosey, what kind of bolts did you pick up? Would mind posting a photo,

.Are you planning on shimming the spider gears? That would be a new idea for me. Did you read the post that Lenny did about shimming the differential? At one time he was making complete shim kits with instructions, maybe someone has a copy.

[Miguelrmrz]

I didn't know there was a guide about shimming the gears I will look for it, what Im trying to do is to duplicate al the existing shims and see how many I can double up to close the gaps and make gears have more face contact, i was also thinking on making one big shim for the ring gear to push it more against the pinion gear and yes it may be noisy after but hopefully tighter ( less play)."".I'm sure some tried this before please advise"".

[Guest Lenny]

Hi Jeff

If I were to send you an email with the diff instructions could you post them in the pinned area in my behalf. No longer selling the kits, the instructions should be available for everyone interested.

Lenny

At the risk of sounding nosey, what kind of bolts did you pick up? Would mind posting a photo,

.Are you planning on shimming the spider gears? That would be a new idea for me. Did you read the post that Lenny did about shimming the differential? At one time he was making complete shim kits with instructions, maybe someone has a copy.

[Kinarfi]

love to, send away

The McMaster-Carr number that I was using was wrong, this one is correct, I have to reorder, here's some photos of what I took out of blown diff, notice that they are still in good shape, I stripped the socket out on some of them, so I need to replace them, so why not just do them all? I'll take photos of the process of grinding them down.

Some more photos coming go to https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0ByQAhs0e-yF9bDZFdGtkemRkQVk&usp=sharing

[ricksrb]

Hi Jeff

If I were to send you an email with the diff instructions could you post them in the pinned area in my behalf. No longer selling the kits, the instructions should be available for everyone interested.

Lenny

Lenny,

I had a copy from the kits i purchased from you and i placed a copy of your instructions in the pinned folder " Technical Articles in this forum". Below is a link.

http://www.utvboard.com/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=1385

[Kinarfi]

and I added to Ricks post

[Kinarfi]

Miguelrmrz, I am a little concerned about the bolts you plan to use to fix your diff with. I worked with Lenny to come up the differential kit and the bolts used in it. The original bolts had 10 mm heads on 8mm bolts, but they were not hard enough and many of us had the same failure you did.

The very tough 12.9 grade bolts we came up with do not clear unless they are ground down, and I don't know of any bolts that would clear except for the original bolt which are not strong enough, IMHO. I took some more photos of where the bolts fit and how tight the tolerances are. I ground down one bolt to see what the minimum amount of grinding, maximum head height is and came up with the heads can not be more than .2740 " high. If I had the equipment, I would mill off a couple hundredth off the bearing holder assembly.

Take another look at the photos at https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0ByQAhs0e-yF9bDZFdGtkemRkQVk&usp=sharing

[nocturnalsixer]

Been a while i chimed in here. I also broke my 2nd rear end that already had been shimmed. I blame my oversized tires and heavy foot. i have been thinking about maybe checking out suzuki samurai independent rear suspension and see if i want to go that route

edit: my gear set is from renegade. The pinion is broken off at the teeth and ring gear is not too bad looking.

[CYJSP2009]

Dear All,

I can provide ring gear and pinion set for 650 front diff, 800, 1100 front and rear diff.

Brand new ring gear and pinion set can be delivered to your door in about one week using DHL.

If anybody is interested, you can send me email at [email protected].

Beside the ring gear and pinion set, we have many other Joyner spare parts inventory stocked in US.

Have a good day!

[Guest Lenny]

If you ask anyone that has rode with me they will tell you that I heavily abused my Trooper also with Renegade gears. I also had 130 HP and ran 10x31 tires with no differential problems . Keep in mind that to just shim the diff isn't enough. Along with replacing the bolts you need to carefully align the gears, If they are miss aligned which was common on many diffs, the teeth don't fully engage putting higher stress on the portion that does engage.

Been a while i chimed in here. I also broke my 2nd rear end that already had been shimmed. I blame my oversized tires and heavy foot. i have been thinking about maybe checking out suzuki samurai independent rear suspension and see if i want to go that route
edit: my gear set is from renegade. The pinion is broken off at the teeth and ring gear is not too bad looking.

[Guest Lenny]

Thanks Rick

Lenny,

I had a copy from the kits i purchased from you and i placed a copy of your instructions in the pinned folder " Technical Articles in this forum". Below is a link.

http://www.utvboard.com/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=1385

[ricksrb]

Thanks Rick

Lenny,

I had a copy from the kits i purchased from you and i placed a copy of your instructions in the pinned folder " Technical Articles in this forum". Below is a link.

http://www.utvboard.com/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=1385

Your very welcome. Its great to see your post here.

[Miguelrmrz]

Ok I havent had a lot of time to work on putting my rear diff. Back together , So last weekend I finally installed the new bolts, a couple new bearings, ( input shaft bearings and the cone side bearing).. Also a few shims ."BUT" when I finished puting the cover I noticed that, while turning the input shaft on one revolution of the out put shafts, the input shaft will go from nice and lose to very tight,, it seems to me that the ring gear is not centered, question is.. Is this a common problem? Posible solutions?? Thanks in advance...

[Kinarfi]

Mine does the same, but not as bad as you make it sound, IMHO, this is caused by the play around the bolts, one of my reasons for using longer bolts with shoulders, Also, IMHO, the fix would be to remover the smaller half of the case and loosen the ring bolts and try to adjust, then tighten, then pull one ring bolt at a time and reinstall with loctite.

JUST MY 2 CENTS WORTH