Front suspension

[GMANLV]

Hey guys I'm ready to buy my shocks, but need some info.  When I try cycling the front suspension, the suspension binds up, when the tie rod ball joint is at approximately 90 degrees.  Which from stock is close to 8" wheel travel.  Once I unbolt the tie rod and stock shock, I easily get 13"+ wheel travel.    Are my stock replacement tie rod ball joints defective?    Have you guys replaced the ball joints to get maximum travel?  Are you guys using heims with misalignment spacers?

 

Greg 

[Kinarfi]

what are you driving? Trooper?, Renegade, other?

[silverbullet]

Silverbullet

we can't help if you don't tell us model you have Joyner 2 or 4 wheel drive.

[GMANLV]

2008 T2

[silverbullet]

Silverbullet

Hi The thing you have to considered is the angle of the C/V joint when you disconnect the tie rod end and drop the suspension.Spin the wheel and you will see the c/v joint will bind.If you set up more travel  the c/v will bind and break the c/v axles.The only way you can lift is move the differentials down.This is a big job.Just some thing you need to look at.

Thanks Rich

[GMANLV]

2008 T2

Well after searching tie rod ball joint I see this problem been going on for a while.  Since the ball joint is acting like a "bump stop" they need frequent replacement.  I'm going to replace the ball joints with heims and misalignment spacers.  Hopefully I can get the articulation I want.  At the very least allow the a-arms to cycle for respectable wheel travel

[2scoops]

This is as good as you can get.  Custom shock hoops, lowered diff, aftermarket shocks to equal about 12.5 to 13" of travel. The cv's are ultimately what limit us from more. This is plenty for rock crawling but not enough for big high speed whoops. I have contemplated longer A arms, but I got this dialed in right now and I don't really want to mess with it anymore.  Also,  I would need to source longer axle shafts.

[silverbullet]

silverbullet

Looking good a great compromise.The C/V are at the maximum angel.Good job!  

[GMANLV]

23 hours ago, 2scoops said:

This is as good as you can get.  Custom shock hoops, lowered diff, aftermarket shocks to equal about 12.5 to 13" of travel. The cv's are ultimately what limit us from more. This is plenty for rock crawling but not enough for big high speed whoops. I have contemplated longer A arms, but I got this dialed in right now and I don't really want to mess with it anymore.  Also,  I would need to source longer axle shafts.

Your rig looks good.  I'm pretty sure I seen a video of it in action.   There was a rock climb with a razor that need help, your Trooper plus another Trooper made the climb pretty easy, with the long wheelbase.  

 

With my Trooper I'm hoping to get more articulation (heims and hms) with the tie rods.   That should give me more travel on the compression stroke.   I should be able to pick up an inch or two of droop with longer shocks.  

 

Here are pictures of my home built, and Sand Viper 250 converted, to 600cc long travel buggy

[GMANLV]

Installed my front shocks today.  I had the shocks made 21.3" long to get max droop, with no modifications.   Currently they have 125lb springs (free) which look to be a little light with a 1/2" of preload.  The shock calculator recommends 153lb , I'll probably end up buying 150lb, but not until I try the 125's.    

So the initial set up. 

FOA 2.5 remote res

light/med  valving on both comp and rebound

125lb 12" springs

 

Greg 

[silverbullet]

silverbullet  

Gmanly how are the shocks going.I have never used FOA shocks.I have used bilstein shocks.Good shocks good quality but to expensive.1800 set of 4.What did they cost for shock set up.

[GMANLV]

Hey Silver bullet.  The 2.5" goes for $210 for the basic shock, about $260 with dual rate hardware, springs are additional.  I have had good results with FOA, they are local, and they treat me well.  I have 1pr of FOA shocks on each of my buggies(3), and for the Joyners they made the length shock I wanted.  The information to rebuild the shock is on the website, so I've learned to service my shocks, and play with the tuning. 

 

I also have Fox, and Walker Evans shocks.   They are better shocks,  fit, finish, new technology, although getting information can be challenging.   For instance I have a set of piggybacks on my single seat that need servicing.  So far I only see one source for parts.  The fore mention shocks are take offs or new, built for other off road vehicles.  I will say Walker Evans was helpful so I've serviced their shocks.   If you buy the off the shelf shocks the info is there, but there are a lot of good deals for rzr take offs that are adjustable, and they fit the rear of the Trooper.

Get rid of the stock throw aways, for the same price get a serviceable FOA.

 

more pics look at that nice Walker Evans piston.

[silverbullet]

Silverbullet

Our shocks are complete springs resvar dual rate included I have used Walker-Evans on my renegade long travel.Great shock but expensive.For the average guy with a trooper these just bolt on and your done.Joyner has done all the work on the set up.Is there always better yes dose every body have your skills no.I give options to you guys you make the choice.We have sold a lot of the 28" and 32" shock for the Viper.Price can't be beat.I have never used FOA shocks so i can't compare.But they look good and we are going to carry the rebuild kits at our shop.So parts no problem.1 year warranted.

[GMANLV]

2 hours ago, silverbullet said:

Silverbullet

Our shocks are complete springs resvar dual rate included I have used Walker-Evans on my renegade long travel.Great shock but expensive.For the average guy with a trooper these just bolt on and your done.Joyner has done all the work on the set up.Is there always better yes dose every body have your skills no.I give options to you guys you make the choice.We have sold a lot of the 28" and 32" shock for the Viper.Price can't be beat.I have never used FOA shocks so i can't compare.But they look good and we are going to carry the rebuild kits at our shop.So parts no problem.1 year warranted.

Silverbullet I think that's great, I really do.  I found FOA (in my own backyard) after I went through 2 sets of stock shocks, in less that 2 years.  This was my Joyner 250.  When I bought the second pair, it was out of frustration.  At that time Buggy World and Fox were making a air shock for the 250, so I paid for a pair.    Between Fox's holiday schedule, and Buggy World moving, 2 months passed with no shocks, so I asked for a refund.   During the interim I started reading  up on shocks, and decided i didn't want air shocks.   However searching for a shock to bolt on turn up nada.  So when I talked to FOA they were happy to oblige,  they even machined the spring retainers so we could use the stock springs.  Still only one other SV250 owner stepped up to buy a pair of rear shocks.  If anyone can appreciate your effort it's me.  

 

Greg  

[GMANLV]

Okay 125lb is too light.  125lb felt really good in the choppy trails, but fast trails with small whoops and elevation changes bottomed the shocks easily.  I figured since my shocks had a 7" stroke, the rod ends were binding the suspension.  I put some cable ties on the shafts and found out I was using the full stroke.  Once I got the buggy home I confirmed that this set up yields 10" of wheel travel,  Mentioned in another thread by 2scoops.  

So I will run a dual rate setup.  Just installed my new hardware. 

150lb primary rate 

250lb tender spring 

400lb main spring

[2scoops]

Lookin good.  I am busy figuring out how I can improve our steering geometry since my steering rack mount ripped off the frame after years of abuse rockcrawling. This due to insane bump steer which power steering has been absorbing and i didn't know how much force was being jolted through the mount everytime i hit a rock. I am proud of our design in that it is mounted in front of the A arms. Now all the hard core rzr race teams are moving their racks to the front, so one positive there. Then I want to mount a suzuki transfer case where the battery is now.  Insane low gearing and front dig. ..it would be so awesome. 

[GMANLV]

Thanks.  I thought about making longer tie rods, just to get the pivot points closer to the a-arms pivot points.  I'm not sure it would help since I wouldn't be able to line them up.  Be interested  in what you come up with.

[2scoops]

I just ordered a heavy duty steering rack for a rzr 1000 with tierods and tie rod ends. The rzr rack is not perfect but is 1.5 to 2 inches narrower than ours so bumpsteer will be better. I will keep you updated on how it goes. If Joyners didn't have oddball sizes and thread counts on everything i would stick with our rack and modify it. Additionally our tierod end and heims aren't quality. They wear out WAY too soon.

[silverbullet]

Silverbullet

We have chromoly tie rods ends and body heims. In stock.They bolt right on no modifying.

Rich

[Kinarfi]

I got my last set from McMaster Carr, then after installation, I drowned them in grease and wrapped them with polyurethane and black taped that so they were dust proofed to keep the dust out and the grease in and didn't have any more trouble, did the same to my new Trooper.

https://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-rod-ends/=16ypo00

I bought the heavy duty ones, the ones that came with trooper had a 'bronze' mesh center that IMHO would crush and cause slop, the heavy duty McMaster one seemed to last with the covering I put on. I did the same to my A arm joints too.

Jeff

[ERV JR]

Which do you consider heavy duty ?

Sent from my SCH-S968C using Tapatalk

[Kinarfi]

 of theI think this is what I bought, except I know I bought 8 of them and replace all 4 on each side, 2 on top, 2 on bottom. I searched the spec  on all of them and went with these because I was trying  to get rid of the noise that I thought them might be creating because of the play in them.  The stock '08 joint had a bronze mesh in them that could crush with the pounding. These just seem to have higher numbers.  I'll see if I can find the order where I bought 8.

High-Strength Ball Joint Rod End

M16 x 2.0 RH Male Thread, 16mm Ball ID, 40mm Long Thread 
4483T361

2

Each

$25.60

Each

$51.20

Found the order - same number - 12-19-2012  I decided to carry a spare after having one of the stock ones break, miles from camp.

[trailreadyT2]

On ‎3‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 12:42 AM, GMANLV said:

Installed my front shocks today.  I had the shocks made 21.3" long to get max droop, with no modifications.   Currently they have 125lb springs (free) which look to be a little light with a 1/2" of preload.  The shock calculator recommends 153lb , I'll probably end up buying 150lb, but not until I try the 125's.    

So the initial set up. 

FOA 2.5 remote res

light/med  valving on both comp and rebound

125lb 12" springs

 

Greg 

I'm thinking about going with the FOA shocks on the front of my T2. I know nothing about shocks and was wondering about the difference for riding with & without the reservoir. We do a lot of trail riding in Arkansas which can include any terrain from smooth to very rocky.

Looking for a lot better ride then the stock squeaky shocks on it now. Any help would be greatly appreciated

[GMANLV]

The dual rate set up, I posted couple with the stated valving makes for a great ride.