Doesn't want to start

[Rwpjtk]

My 2013 500 will only start if I floor the gas pedal and then once it starts I have to pump the gas until it warms up a little it sounds horrible until it warms up.(around 20 seconds)and then it will stay running. The exhaust smells like raw gas for a little while. The throttle body has been changed. Someone suggested the mass air flow sensor could be the problem ( is that the MAP). It has been to 2 different shops with it not being fixed. I haven't been able to ride it since last fall.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

[Travis]

Well, when i first joined here, i read story titled Massimo's are POS.

Have you contacted Massimo about it?

[Rwpjtk]

This is the only problem I've had with it since I bought it. Yes I talked to Massimo they said sound like the fuel pump but one shop said they tested that and it was fine. The second shop had it for 5 weeks and never called me on it or even worked on it. They wouldn't answer their  phone or return calls after I left messages. But when I dropped it off the guy said it sounded like the mass air flow.

[Travis]

Is a fuel injected system?

[Travis]

Could be something wrong with inlet (Fuel) valve on the head not opening far enough...

[Rwpjtk]

20 hours ago, Travis said:

Is a fuel injected system?

Yes it is.

[Thaguy]

Did you ever get this issue fixed? Mine is doing almost the same thing except mine will not start at all

[Travis]

@Thaguy   Is it just clicking when turning the key?

[Rick Wojtkowiak]

No. Read my original post.

[Rick Wojtkowiak]

No it's not fixed yet. putting a MAP sensor in it today. Thats what the mechanic says is wrong. Ill let you know if it works.  It has actually gotten worse. It wont even stay running now when i let off of the gas. Going to be tricky getting it on the trailer to take it the mechanic.

[Rick Wojtkowiak]

The map sensor wasn't the problem. Now have no idea what it could be. It's getting to much fuel and flooding and then stalling. This think hasn't been fixed since last fall.

[strike250]

You really need to have a diagnostic code reader with live data plugged in. This is the only way to read the EFI system as it runs. It will show if you have any hidden codes, it will show the voltage at the TPS, engine coolant sensor and so forth. All these things need to be working correctly for the engine to get the correct spark and fuel. But with out a Diagnostic reader plugged in, you will have to sit there with a meter and measure the electrical items one by one. The fuel injector simply gets a signal to pulse, this opens the injector at specific times to squirt fuel into the cylinder. This is confirmed by signals from either the timing sensor, or crank sensor. You will also need to make sure something as simple as the coolant temp sensor is working properly, if it is not reading properly, it will tell the engine it is either too cold or too hot. This will effect your fuel problems. You will also have to measure the map sensor, the tps sensor and so on. That is why it is so much easier to get it plugged in and read it as you try to start it. Is there anyone close to you that has a diagnostic reader to plug in when you try to start it?

[kenfain]

Is this thing OBD2, or something else? If it is, OBD2, there's fairly cheap options out there for live data readers. 

[Rwpjtk]

I have no idea what that means. Massimo needs a Delphi code reader. The guy that was working on it is at a lose. He doesnt have a code reader and will not spend the kind of money they want for one.

Now it won't start at all. It's getting to much fuel at start up. The whole throttle assembly, the injector has been changed. 

On 12/8/2017 at 6:31 PM, kenfain said:

Is this thing OBD2, or something else? If it is, OBD2, there's fairly cheap options out there for live data readers. 

 

[kenfain]

OBD2 is the same as what is used on all cars and light trucks manufactured for sale in America since 1996. If it has the same plug, it likely takes the same reader.  The professional versions of these readers can cost more than a thousand dollars. When software for these professional readers is added ( and they're updated often, since each manufacturer has brand specific codes) the cost can be several thousand dollars. But the good news is, there's generic information in each system, that's common to all vehicles that use the system. So you don't need the expensive version of this tool. You can use the cheap one, (they're about a hundred bucks) and do a little detective work. The code reader will tell you which part, or system needs to be investigated further. However in your case even that might not be necessary. But unfortunately, it will require someone who either knows, or has access to specific voltage values for that particular models electrical components. This information would still be necessary, even if you had the code reader. That's not saying that a reader wouldn't help. But you still need to be able to decipher the gibberish that a code reader puts out. On a car, there's lots of information on the internet that helps you decipher the information. On one of these, there just isn't that much that can be wrong with it, since there just aren't many components there. And I doubt that even the internet would help with diagnosis. I suspect that a multimeter and some time spent checking the components involved in telling the fuel system how much fuel it needs to start would be the best course of action.

[Dan B]

The smell of raw gas in the exhaust tells me one or more of your injectors might be stuck open.  The excess fuel pressure after shutdown might be bleeding off into the cylinder making restart difficult.  But that would also show black smoke upon start up.  If you have a source of compressed air, you might be able to see or feel air coming out the injector.  Worth a try.

[singlesupra]

Sounds to me like you need to adjust the valves

[Rwpjtk]

Your the winner. Yes i found someone to fix it. Tge valves were tight. Apparently with a massimo the get tight all on their own.

[Warden64]

I have the benchee 500 tub. Just had it worked on. Fuel pump replaced, voltage regulator, injector,spark plug, throttle body. They called said it was fixed. Brought it home wife drove it across yard parked it. When I tried to restart it to move it never got it to start again. Am at a loss and about as aggravated as can be about it. It is sparking and I put another injector on it still nothing. I hear the fuel pump prime up and it is sparking. Shot a squirt of starting fluid didn’t even try to start. Any help would be appreciated. 

[kenfain]

 In light of earlier posts in this thread. I'd check the valves. Because something happened to just make it stop even trying to start.

Just curious, but what method was used to verify the spark? Today's engines run with way more powerful spark than they used to.

Some older testers, and methods aren't able to verify there's enough power for it to start the engine. Only that there's actually a spark. 

I use a tester, that looks like a mini spark plug. There's a large gap. If the spark jumps the large gap, then there's plenty of fire to start. They're cheap, and easy to find, and easy to use.

Also they're absolutely necessary. It's recommended  that you not just pull the plug, and lay it on the head, to check spark anymore. Bad things can happen to delicate electronics  when doing this. 

[Warden64]

On 12/22/2021 at 8:24 AM, kenfain said:

 In light of earlier posts in this thread. I'd check the valves. Because something happened to just make it stop even trying to start.

Just curious, but what method was used to verify the spark? Today's engines run with way more powerful spark than they used to.

Some older testers, and methods aren't able to verify there's enough power for it to start the engine. Only that there's actually a spark. 

I use a tester, that looks like a mini spark plug. There's a large gap. If the spark jumps the large gap, then there's plenty of fire to start. They're cheap, and easy to find, and easy to use.

Also they're absolutely necessary. It's recommended  that you not just pull the plug, and lay it on the head, to check spark anymore. Bad things can happen to delicate electronics  when doing this. 

 

[Warden64]

Well the valves were checked and adjusted in the shop that worked on it. They had called said it was ready we loaded it by starting it and driving on trailer. Made half a loop around my yard parked it now it won’t start. If you try it after sitting it acts like it wants to start one time. U try it again nothing. Let it sit awhile it does same thing one time then nothing. I cakes the spark by one of these inline spark testers. It sparks big time. Almost acts like it’s not getting fuel. At my wits end. 

[kenfain]

My opinion is, that it'll be far cheaper in the long run, to get the code reader now. Throwing parts at it, will only make you angrier. Last time I looked, the factory sold a code reader for these machines. It was several hundred dollars.

But there are cheaper delphi readers available. You just need the right plug to connect it. Other forum members have done this. I'm sure that I read a thread, just in the last week or so, that named a specific brand reader as an affordable option.

I think you should start a thread, to find out any information about the cheap Delphi code readers, that might work with your machine. It has to have the right plug, or it's useless till you get that specific plug in that matches yours. 

Take that information, and go from there. 

[Warden64]

Thanks you may have a point. I felt like the shop I took it to had it fixed but after $600 more I found they didn’t. 

[kenfain]

Dunno how much you know about code readers. But they only read codes that are actually there. Making their usefulness somewhat limited. Some problems don't generate any codes.

That's why you need  one that does live data. It'll tell you exactly what the engine is doing.

Still quite a challenge to figure out what's not right, but since all the information is there, it becomes a matter of going through it, and finding out what's out of place.

I just don't want you to spend a significant amount of money, thinking it's an instant solution. It's not an end all be all, that just gives you an instant solution. 

Instead, live data is a lot of gibberish to the non mechanically inclined  of us who don't fully understand the information stream it provides. But it's accurate information, you just have to take it one line at a time, and figure it out. 

[KEG 440]

On 12/22/2021 at 1:11 AM, Warden64 said:

I have the benchee 500 tub. Just had it worked on. Fuel pump replaced, voltage regulator, injector,spark plug, throttle body. They called said it was fixed. Brought it home wife drove it across yard parked it. When I tried to restart it to move it never got it to start again. Am at a loss and about as aggravated as can be about it. It is sparking and I put another injector on it still nothing. I hear the fuel pump prime up and it is sparking. Shot a squirt of starting fluid didn’t even try to start. Any help would be appreciated. 

I would do a compression test before adjusting the valves and then after it might tell you if your rings are worn out. The first test will tell you if your valves are good you want over 100 psi that is spec for a 500 I work on Benche, Massimo, Odes, and Hisun at my work.

[Warden64]

12 hours ago, KEG 440 said:

I would do a compression test before adjusting the valves and then after it might tell you if your rings are worn out. The first test will tell you if your valves are good you want over 100 psi that is spec for a 500 I work on Benche, Massimo, Odes, and Hisun at my work.

Jim

[Warden64]

Thanks and failed to say it had a top end job done. I took it to another guy and it ended up being the valves out of adjustment. Running fine now.