How messed-up is this. Think head gasket is blown

[Greg Kilgore]

I'm 99.9% sure head gasket is blown.

Don't have coolant in oil. That a good thing. But think coolant is getting in combustion chamber. 

I did compression test.
Got 120psi walked away. Came back to 105psi 15 minutes later.

How hard is it to replace?

https://youtu.be/N31mOtOPuKI?si=nSnuF4-weRU2T10t

Advise?

[Joe Breaux]

Been there..I had to pay to get it done because I had just had back surgery. Did not appear to be to difficult but after replacing gasket we realized the head was cracked..better check yours while it's off. This is a common issue on Hisun engine.I honestly think they don't torque the head bolts during assembly. None of mine were .good luck

[Greg Kilgore]

Thanks for the input. I have the know-how, (with some help, hopefully, from this forum and YT if I have trouble). Don't have a enclosed work space. And it's winter. So I'll probably have to send to a shop.

The closest authorized shop is 3ish hours away and a 2 month wait. May see if any shop is willing to work on it.

Didn't have any issues until I installed that heater. Then it got hot enough to turn on idiot temp light on dash. Because I didn't bleed where coolant line comes out of the head.

Just wondering if I should remove the heater. 

The heater pipes are about 16mm and the radiator hoses are about 22mm. And the way I plumed the thing was to force all the coolant through the heater, but also left a heater bypass. Hand controlled by ball valves. 

Either way the wife blames me for f-ing around with it. LOL Every married man knows how that goes. Got a sign in the yard that says "Property Protected by PMS Security System". LOL

Any way may have to restore coolant system back to stock or build something that will allow the same flow and still go through the heater. I don't know. Anybody have any input.

[Alien10]

Compression test clarification question.

Did you get 120lbs that then bled down to 105 in 15 minutes of sitting?  Or did you do a second test 15 minutes later and only got 105lbs.

Remember, rings and pistons are not complete seals, they all naturally leak.  Max compression is only required to be present during the power stroke, and for a fraction of a second.

If  there's no coolant in the oil, what else has convinced you of a failed head gasket?

You might consider additional testing before tearing into the engine.

 

[Alien10]

Couple of other thoughts...

A head gasket can fail to the oil passages, to the coolant system, or to the outside air.   

Are you getting excessive crank case blow by? 

Is there any external compression leakage?

Are you getting combustion gases in the coolant system?  Cap off  coolant system shouldn't be expelling gases or pressure.

Has the coolant level dropped or increased? 

Does the coolant appear to be contaminated in any way? (Oily, brownish tinge etc.)

Just a few things that came to mind.

Good luck. 

 

[Joe Breaux]

Look for tiny bubbles in the coolant recovery bottle while running and normal temp or hot.  Mine never got coolant in the oil but looked like Alka Seltzer in the recovery bottle.

[Greg Kilgore]

2 hours ago, Alien10 said:

Compression test clarification question.

Did you get 120lbs that then bled down to 105 in 15 minutes of sitting?  Or did you do a second test 15 minutes later and only got 105lbs.

...

I got 120lbs that then bled down to 105 in 15 minutes of sitting.

 

 

2 hours ago, Alien10 said:

Compression test clarification question.

...

If  there's no coolant in the oil, what else has convinced you of a failed head gasket?

...

 

I get air bubbles bubbling up in the radiator while the engine is running.

The Idiot temp light on dash came on after I installed the cab heater and refilled the radiator (thought I had all air out). Has done that a few times but was able to rev engine a few times and it went off while riding 3 days after the heater was installed.

I bleed the coolant system at the bleed screw on the goose neck at the head. Until coolant start to come out. Then run the engine. Then watch the bubbles come to the top of the radiator fill opening. That is shown in the video.

 

2 hours ago, Alien10 said:

Couple of other thoughts...

A head gasket can fail to the oil passages, to the coolant system, or to the outside air.   

Are you getting excessive crank case blow by? 

I may have some blow by but not a lot.

 

2 hours ago, Alien10 said:

...

Is there any external compression leakage?

...

No I don't think so. Can't hear or fill anything. Guess I could use soapy water to make sure. But the head is nice and dusty.

 

2 hours ago, Alien10 said:

...

Are you getting combustion gases in the coolant system?  Cap off  coolant system shouldn't be expelling gases or pressure.

...

I'm getting something bubbling of the radiator with cap off. Guess I could hold a lighter there and see if I get an increase in flame when bubbles pop to see if fuel is present. The bubbling is seen in video.

 

2 hours ago, Alien10 said:

....

Has the coolant level dropped or increased? 

... 

When I open radiator cap when it has been setting for a day or two. There is pressure present. And the radiator is full. No drop nor increase as far as I can tell. I'll check here in a few.

I topped off the overflow jug when I added that cab heater. I should drain it back to normal and monitor.

 

2 hours ago, Alien10 said:

...

Does the coolant appear to be contaminated in any way? (Oily, brownish tinge etc.)

... 

No change color. No oil floating. 

 

2 hours ago, Alien10 said:

...

Good luck. 

 

Thanks I'll need it. 

 

I'm currently giving it the twice over. Been setting a week or so. 

Radiator topped off.

Air at goose neck.

I'm pulling the spark plug. Going to stick a white paper towel in and see what come out. Post after.

[Greg Kilgore]

3 minutes ago, Joe Breaux said:

Look for tiny bubbles in the coolant recovery bottle while running and normal temp or hot.  Mine never got coolant in the oil but looked like Alka Seltzer in the recovery bottle.

Get big bubble in radiator with cap off. It's in the video. I don't think it builds up the pressure to come past the cap. But I'll check in a few and report back.

Thanks.

[Alien10]

A little pressure in the radiator after sitting a few days would seem to preclude a head gasket failure between the combustion chamber and the coolant jackets. Pressure would push coolant into the cylinder or if failed between oil and coolant, into the crank case.   Also when running, a head gasket blown into the cooling system will certainly provide pressure into the cooling system and exiting at the open radiator fill.    There is a tester that will analyze the coolant to see if combustion products are contaminating it.  Not sure if you can borrow one of these from a local auto parts store or not.

There used to be a radiator air pump that you'd use in place of the radiator cap. Pump up pressure in the cooling system and watch the pressure gauge to see if it holds or bleeds off.  

In your video, the bubbles are somewhat consistent in volume over the course of the video with the engine idling.  What happens if you raise the RPMs while watching the coolant in the radiator?   Do the bubbles increase in volume as you would expect if it is coming from a head gasket leak into the cooling system. 

This is more of a guess on what you've found so far, but maybe there is still a big air bubble somewhere in the cooling system that is slowly percolating up as the pump is pumping the coolant. 

 

 

[Greg Kilgore]

26 minutes ago, Alien10 said:

A little pressure in the radiator after sitting a few days would seem to preclude a head gasket failure between the combustion chamber and the coolant jackets. Pressure would push coolant into the cylinder or if failed between oil and coolant, into the crank case.   Also when running, a head gasket blown into the cooling system will certainly provide pressure into the cooling system and exiting at the open radiator fill.    .....

Exactly, just didn't put it as you did.

On 12/9/2024 at 2:48 PM, Greg Kilgore said:

...

Don't have coolant in oil. That a good thing. But think coolant is getting in combustion chamber. 

...

 

26 minutes ago, Alien10 said:

... There is a tester that will analyze the coolant to see if combustion products are contaminating it.  Not sure if you can borrow one of these from a local auto parts store or not.

There used to be a radiator air pump that you'd use in place of the radiator cap. Pump up pressure in the cooling system and watch the pressure gauge to see if it holds or bleeds off.  

...

Didn't know about the gas tester. I'll see if the parts store has something. Thanks.

I've used the radiator pressure tester from auto parts before on my GMC truck. So I should get it again and test the Axis.

26 minutes ago, Alien10 said:

...

In your video, the bubbles are somewhat consistent in volume over the course of the video with the engine idling.  What happens if you raise the RPMs while watching the coolant in the radiator?   Do the bubbles increase in volume as you would expect if it is coming from a head gasket leak into the cooling system. 

This is more of a guess on what you've found so far, but maybe there is still a big air bubble somewhere in the cooling system that is slowly percolating up as the pump is pumping the coolant. 

 

 

I have checked. Can't be in two places at the same time. I'm good but not that good. LOL I'll have the put something on the gas pedal and watch. I didn't get the wife come out and hold the gas or anything. I'm afraid of what she would've hit with when I told her that the sxs was messed up. Riding around these side roads is about the only pleasure she gets. Doesn't say much about me does it. LOL 

There could be a bubble but not likely.

Just today I used a clamp. Clamped off the hose coming from the goose neck. Opened the bleed screw at goose neck. Just in case there was a bubble that way like you said. And the coolant still came out.

 

Got to laugh about it to keep from crying.

 

Was no coolant in the combustion chamber when I took out spark plug. The paper towel came out clean. I also disconnected the fuel pump and cranked and nothing came out while cranking.

I've got it running now with the ball valve for the heater off and the regular coolant hose on. So far all seem good 

No idiot light. The temp gauge say the the temp is good. Fan turn on at 175 and off at 165 according the gauge I installed on the radiator hose.

[Greg Kilgore]

1 hour ago, Joe Breaux said:

Look for tiny bubbles in the coolant recovery bottle while running and normal temp or hot.  Mine never got coolant in the oil but looked like Alka Seltzer in the recovery bottle.

I've got bubble coming up in the overflow bottle. Not Alka Seltzer. But I have got a steady 1/4 inch bubbles coming up about 2 bubbles a second.

[Greg Kilgore]

I can't mark any comment as the answer because both members that helped me diagnose this beast has provided the correct information to diagnose the issue. 

 

Thanks to both Alien10 and Joe Breaux for the help. With the information both provided I'm 100% sure there is a blown head gasket. The breach of gasket material seems to be between the coolant channel and the combustion chamber. Now all that remains is do I down the machine myself or take to shop. That is going to depend if I can get an enclosed place to work on this beast. LOL 

Thanks guys I appreciate the help.

[Joe Breaux]

18 hours ago, Greg Kilgore said:

I've got bubble coming up in the overflow bottle. Not Alka Seltzer. But I have got a steady 1/4 inch bubbles coming up about 2 bubbles a second.

That's a head or gasket leaking combustion gases into water jacket..

New gasket in you future..glad we could help..Now try to find a place to work. If you take it in, expect long wait  and big bill

[Greg Kilgore]

Side note. Did notice yesterday there was evidence of oil seeping to the outside around the head and block on the passenger side. All around the side to the back. 

Called a shop already. Closest shop to work on Hisun is 3hr away, 2 month waiting list and $500-$600. Didn't say how long it would take either.

So trying to find any shop closer to work on it.

I've replaced heads on simple 2.5 iron dukes in S-10 and 2.3 in rangers over the years. Rebuilt carbs, changed stators and did link and sync on outboards. All under a shade tree. But followed directions in repair manuals like Chilton's and Haynes.

Just don't have the space or shade tree now. It's cold outside here in Kentucky. And that sxs doesn't look like it's the easiest to get to all the engine that necessary. Without removing a lot of stuff. May just rip out the engine. So who knows if I'll tackle or the shop. 

If I tackle I'll be sure to take pics and post progress. Then there's the fun of finding parts and tools that are affordable. That's going to be fun.

Thanks again for the help.

[motojoe]

Sounds like you have an air bubble in the cooling system.  What you need to do is jack up the front of the side by side with the wheels off the ground and bleed the system and fill the radiator.,

[Greg Kilgore]

1 hour ago, motojoe said:

Sounds like you have an air bubble in the cooling system.  What you need to do is jack up the front of the side by side with the wheels off the ground and bleed the system and fill the radiator.,

I've pulled the beast up on 45° hill and bleed system. Even burping at the head. Believe me, I wish it was an air bubble. As much as I've have bleed the system, it's a blown head gasket between the coolant channel and the combustion chamber. But it never hurts to try again.