Hisun Sector E1

[Mississippi]

We're all electric at our hunting camp and I'm looking at an E1 to replace my Ranger EV.  Anybody got any experience with these UTV's out there?

[Gorj]

I have an E1 and am happy with it. Very quiet. No gas, oil, filters, plugs, etc to worry about. I just plug it in once a week. I have installed a radio and an LED light bar.  It has more power than you will ever need.

[Osney]

I have a Vector E1 (as they're called in the UK), and it's good, but I can't wholeheartedly recommend them. They're underpowered and mine certainly struggles on the hills around where I live (Fife, Scotland, so hills, not mountains). One particularly annoying thing is that after about four or five miles of use, the slightest hill has the screen throwing up a 'low voltage' error as the batteries can't seem to supply enough power. After about ten miles it just gives up altogether, even though the battery charge indicator on  the dash is showing full or one bar off full. It's been back to the dealer twice, and had the whole battery array replaced, but it still does it. Now waiting for advice from the UK importers before it goes back a third time.

It's also go more grease points than is entirely reasonable, and is quite difficult to clean effectively if it gets muddy. The lack of front mudguards means it throws mud (and cowpats - this is a livestock farm!) at you. I've asked about the full cab kit for it, but have yet to be given a price let alone availability. Meantime some DIY rubber mudflaps help, but why not an option to start with?

On the plus side, it's wonderfully quiet and does pretty much everything I need it to do - when it works!

[Gorj]

I am sorry you have had the issues list. I have a friend that has had an E1 for about a year and he had a battery issue since he brought it home.  They finally fixed it by replacing one faulty battery.  I have had mine just six + weeks and it has more power than I need. I have small mountain at the back of my place and it goes up it like a jack rabbit. Haven't gone through any heavy mud yet so no experience.

[Osney]

Thanks. That's useful information. Mine has always struggled with hills, and I was worried that was just the way the buggies worked. I thought my dealer had already replaced all the batteries, but I'll check with them about that. They've certainly replaced some of them.

[Gorj]

Battery voltage may not be the issue. The issue may be what the amps/wattage of each battery is under load. Have your dealer run a load test on each battery to see if they are up to spec. A battery can show its rated voltage but fail under load.  Today I was splitting logs in my pasture and pulled my log splitter  and a full load of split oak logs in the bed up a steep bank in 4wd and in low without any problems.

[Cougsfan]

I have an E1 and love it for how I use it.  I'd be worried to use it for hunting as the range on a charge is limited.   Seems to me the 45 miles per charge is optomistic.   When the batteries get low it does have troubles on hills.

[Osney]

25 minutes ago, Cougsfan said:

I have an E1 and love it for how I use it.  I'd be worried to use it for hunting as the range on a charge is limited.   Seems to me the 45 miles per charge is optomistic.   When the batteries get low it does have troubles on hills.

I always assumed 45 miles was optimistic, but 5 miles isn't really good enough for anything! All but one of the batteries on mine have been replaced now, and I haven't had a recurrence of the 45c3 error in the past few days. I've not been pushing it that hard though - need to go for a long run and then try a hill. It's frustrating, because it could be such a good little buggy for what I need, if it would just work as advertised.

[Gorj]

Some of these battery issues may be due to the BMS (battery maintenance system). I own a hybrid vehicle and there is always talk on the forums about issues with the BMS. It seems like with electric vehicles the BMS is the brains of the electrical system. I wonder if the dealers that are servicing these electric units really understand what they are working on! 

[Osney]

7 hours ago, Gorj said:

Some of these battery issues may be due to the BMS (battery maintenance system). I own a hybrid vehicle and there is always talk on the forums about issues with the BMS. It seems like with electric vehicles the BMS is the brains of the electrical system. I wonder if the dealers that are servicing these electric units really understand what they are working on! 

It's certainly a steep learning curve for repair shops used to dealing with petrol engines! The other thing that can impact on performance with electric vehicles is if the cables are not well connected, or there's corrosion in the terminals. I've got a couple of books on converting ICE cars to electric, as I'm thinking about doing that to my classic Alfa Romeo. I just need to find time to read them properly, then identify all the various components in the UTV and test them one by one!

[Cougsfan]

The Hisun (and other electric UTV's ) really just use golf cart technology. Lead acids are stone age compared to some of the newer technologies, but the newer technologies haven't made their way into UTV's yet.    And the new technologies will all probably be outdated in a couple of years too.  

[Gorj]

There are a few SxS's that use newer technology, ie. lithium batteries, but they are really pricey. The gel batteries in the E1, even though very heavy, work well and are not as temperamental as the lithium.  The heavy batteries also give the E1 the ability to pull a heavy load without loosing traction.  For example, I got my Dixie Chopper lawn mower stuck in deep mud a while back. I was able to pull it out with the E1. 

[Osney]

Yes, there's nothing wrong with tried and tested older technology - as long as it works! There's a company over here in the UK that have developed a lithium ion battery powered quad bike, which looks brilliant. The only problem is I could buy four Honda ATVs for the same price. I know gas is getting expensive, but even so it would take a long time to recoup that price difference!

What I'd really like to do is find someone else reasonably local who also as an E1, so that we could compare notes and maybe I could try theirs out. At the moment they're rather thin on the ground in these parts though.

[Gorj]

The local Hisun dealer has sold only four E1's in this area. Like me, they use them on their farm/ranch.  Chickens and cattle are big in this area of Arkansas. Part of the reason more are not sold here is Hisun is not pushing them in order to sell their gas models. Those who want them have to wait six to 10 weeks to get one.  The Hisun distributor in the USA is in north Texas and unlike most Texans they are not to customer friendly! I also have found the inability to purchase certain vehicles in the automotive world. Eighteen months ago I wanted to purchase a plug-in hybrid from Hyundai. I discovered they only sell on the east and west coast of the US.  Dealers can not even get them! So I ended up buying a Hyundai Ioniq hybrid. I have really enjoyed it, especially the mid 50's mpg. But if I could have bought the plug-in version I could have gone about 30+ miles on electricity, and most of my round trips from home are less than 30 miles.

[spp1]

Hi

Just got an E1 and am trying to source a service manual....any suggestions apart from a dealer?  The owners manual is fairly basic, with no mention of the regime for greasing the suspension (there seems to be multiple grease points).
The silent running is great ....only spoiled by an annoying front suspension squeak.... hence the question! 

[Gorj]

I have not found anything but a pdf file that list the specs. Hisun does not seem to customer friendly. I have managed to get my local dealer to photo copy some mechanical and wiring diagrams.  If you don't have a good local dealer you are on your own with Hisun.  They are more of an assembler than a manufacturer. They are shipped in from south east Asia in pieces to North Texas, assembled and then shipped to dealers.

[Osney]

I've not found anything for my UK spec one either, and I agree with you about the grease points. Have you discovered how many there are on the driveshaft under the battery controller? Virtually impossible to get at without putting the thing up on a ramp and removing the bottom cover! My front suspension has got very squeaky now I've put a couple thousand miles on the clock, and I'm looking into replacement suspension bolts and steering rod tie ends as the whole thing is much looser than it should be!

I would assume that the suspension hardware would be similar to some of the other Hisun UTVs, but I'm not sure which model is closest in specification. There's quite a few workshop manuals for the other models on line. It might be worth having a look through them for information on the greasy bits.

[Cougsfan]

6 hours ago, spp1 said:

Hi

Just got an E1 and am trying to source a service manual....any suggestions apart from a dealer?  The owners manual is fairly basic, with no mention of the regime for greasing the suspension (there seems to be multiple grease points).
The silent running is great ....only spoiled by an annoying front suspension squeak.... hence the question! 

My dealer gave me a complete and thorough service manual loaded on a thumb drive with the purchase of my E1.   A dealer shouldn't have a problem with sharing one with you.   As I would expect, there isn't a section on suspension squeaks.   The unit is quite quiet.   If the rig made any engine noise, you probably wouldn't even notice those squeaks.

If you have greased all the fittings I would spray down where the shock springs rub against the shock body with silicone spray.    My guess is that is where the noise might be coming from..   

[spp1]

Hi Guys

Thanks for all the quick responses, much appreciated. I'll check out the hidden grease points , try the spray on the shock and chase the dealer for a manual.

[spp1]

Hi - Update on the squeaks..... WD40 on the shocks and the real nasty squeak ahs gone... thanks. 

On a slightly  different note has anyone been adventurous enough to use the 'Delta-Q' software to monitor the battery charging ....apparently it's just plug in a USB  stick to the charger to download the info,  then  install free software to view on a PC. 

 

[Gorj]

It looks like one would need to use one of their chargers to have the ability to use their app.

[Osney]

2 hours ago, Gorj said:

It looks like one would need to use one of their chargers to have the ability to use their app.

The Delta Q charger is standard fit at least on the UK version of the E1. Not sure what use the information from the app would be though, unless it can identify individual duff batteries.

[Cougsfan]

On 5/5/2021 at 2:47 AM, spp1 said:

Hi - Update on the squeaks..... WD40 on the shocks and the real nasty squeak ahs gone... thanks. 

On a slightly  different note has anyone been adventurous enough to use the 'Delta-Q' software to monitor the battery charging ....apparently it's just plug in a USB  stick to the charger to download the info,  then  install free software to view on a PC. 

 

So what exactly will this "Delta-Q" software do for you? 

[spp1]

On 5/9/2021 at 5:06 AM, Cougsfan said:

So what exactly will this "Delta-Q" software do for you? 

Hi

The link below should take you to the Delta Q  website,  halfway down the page are the links to download the 'Simple IC Data Analysis Tool (IDAT)'.
 From what I can see it's just a monitoring tool and for interest really, I guess it might show if your not charging as well as you think

Software & Accessories - Delta-Q Technologies

 

 

[EVSupport]

Hi. Im new here.

I am located in the UK and have been doing Li Ion conversions on Rangers for about 7 years. These are now in a new generation of installation. to help reduce costs I have recently done a similar version for the Hisun E1 .

This uses the standard DeltaQ charger with a new algorithm, the original Dc To Dc converter, and the original Sevcon Motor controller is re programmed . I have added a 16a power inlet under the front cover, where the better mains cable can also be stored. To reduce the crud getting under the seats the small floor holes at the front are covered, and the rear wheel arch is partially closed off with a new polycarbonate shields mounted under the antiroll bar mounts. It a smoky grey  green and you can just see it in the photo. The battery pack is built from 6  nominally 60 V 30ah cell blocks in parallel so giving 180ah . This gives a  over 10 kwh of storage . Higher current discharge than the lead, and at least 50% greater range. The big advantage is the range wont reduce for many years. These are lightly used cell blocks I get direct from a UK vehicle manufacturer, and we have reversed engineered a way of using the OEM data system built into the cell blocks (I use these on a lot of EV conversions). Most have done little or no significant use and generally no greater than 17000km of use. None are from crash tested vehicles. We confidently expect over 10 years of reliable use from these stupidly high quality parts.

In tests with a number of users of the E1 they are finding the weight reduction is useful (over 150kg) the range increase very noticeable and the swifter performance (slightly higher voltage) better.

I am currently doing the first batch of 5 sets of parts. And will be offering these in the next few months. All of this batch will, be installed at my workshop to iron out any more issues we may find during the installs.

These cost a bit over the price of two replacement lead battery sets, but as with Rangers in constant use that could be in under 18 months/ set. So long term ovnership costs are significantly reduced.

Jeremy Bloomfield   EV Support.

[Osney]

Interesting, although it sounds expensive too! I've had all but one of my original batteries replaced under warranty, but that's going to run out soon.

[EVSupport]

The conversion installed inc VAT is under £4500. So more than a set of lead, but probably less than two sets.

A significant problem with the Gel batteries is that many users do not run them in, These need something like 10 to 20 charge cycles of charge gently discharge to nowhere near empty, and recharge. That seems to help in life no end. Not easy but really important. Even the ranger Trojans dont reach full capacity until about 50 charges in.

 

[Osney]

13 minutes ago, EVSupport said:

The conversion installed inc VAT is under £4500. So more than a set of lead, but probably less than two sets.

A significant problem with the Gel batteries is that many users do not run them in, These need something like 10 to 20 charge cycles of charge gently discharge to nowhere near empty, and recharge. That seems to help in life no end. Not easy but really important. Even the ranger Trojans dont reach full capacity until about 50 charges in.

 

I think that's fair money for what you're selling, but still a lot to fork out for a vehicle that cost only twice that new. I've not had to pay for a set of gels yet though! I agree what you say about the gels, but my experience was never doing more than about 5 miles before overnight charging, which should in theory run them in. The instructions that come with the vehicle are woeful with regard to charging and maintenance of the batteries.

I've never come even close to emptying the batteries completely, at most only having two bars go out on the dashboard meter.  My daily use on the farm here is about five miles, up some reasonably steep hills (but down them also), mostly off road but good farm tracks. On a full charge the E1 can manage that fine, but after about five miles it struggles with the hills, throws up a low voltage error message, and if I test the batteries when I get back to the yard there's at least one that's showing as degraded. My guess (no expert here) is that a well matched and well maintained set of eight batteries will last a long while, but if there's one or more in the set that are sub-par they'll drag the rest down quite swiftly.

I've been looking into alternatives for when this set gives up the ghost, since next time I'll have to pay for replacements myself. It's good to know what's available, and the sort of price to expect, even if it does hurt a little!

 

[EVSupport]

Its quite stunning how much better the E1 is with Li ion. But I think the forthcoming Factory Li ion will be a lot more expensive. I guess the choice to go Li Ion  depends on how long you intend to keep it. The rangers I have done are from 2012 right up to a brandnew 2019 model that had done two weeks use. Most Ranger owners seem to hang onto them and be farmers or land owners (although one customer has 4, all used for virtually silent Camera tracking work) So for them the upfront investment pays off. It is possible to do a smaller pack, but I think thats less good option. The under load voltage on Li ion , with a decent size pack, is so much more stable. These particular cells dont drop much at all under load right through the charge cycle, which means the performance does not drop off as the pack goes down. I have to re programme the Sevcon motor controller so that it cuts back in a series of steps as you get near to the lowest voltage I want to take the pack down to. So its not an all or nothing setup. You do get some warning. Getting up to the pack size of the Ranger conversion just isnt possible within the space there is under the seats.  (Ranger uses 8 cell blocks so 240ah rather than 180ah) . Im sure the Hisun is lighter than than the Ranger, so its probably not significantly different in overall range.  I do know people who have tried off the shelf Li ion Battery replacements, but they are not so successful requiring separate battery chargers for each 12v block. They also tend to be Lifepo4, which doesnt burn  if all goes horribly wrong, but in use the voltage sag under load is much greater. Lifepo4 can deliver huge currents, but they do voltage drop a lot.

A lot of the Ranger owners despite doing proper battery watering are seeing them last under 2 years of regular daily usage. They have an approximate 500 cycles life so thats not far off the two years. A few do / have replaced the odd battery, but on a n older pack once they start to go they will all go, a bit like triggers broom, my pack is 6 years old and none of the batteries are original.

My biggest surprise was on first going out in the Hisun, just how good the ride is. The shocks are an expensive item, but are worth every penny over rougher ground.

 

 

[Osney]

The shocks are good, but the same can't be said for the quality of the suspension bushings and track rod ends! The front of mine rattles around like you wouldn't believe, and finding the spares is not easy.  I still like the vehicle though, and don't plan on replacing it any time soon, so knowing there is a good battery alternative is useful.  Might even have come to terms with the cost by the time it's needed...