2011 HS 700 EFI Radiator Fan Help

[Roarky24]

Hi everyone! I am stumped on this one and I am looking for some help. I have a 2011 Qlink 700 EFI(Hisun 700cc EFI Motor) that I have been having overheating issues with.  So far I have changed both sensors the one on the radiator itself and the one on the engine by where the thermostat would be.  I have left it running for over a hour in my driveway and the radiator fan never kicked on(watched radiator steam) so I jumped that to make sure the fan worked and it does.  But is not kicking on when it is hooked up right.  Any suggestions on where to go from here since there is no fuse for the radiator fan?  Thank You

[Travis]

I would check for a blown fuse or bad relay, or check to see if you have power to the wiring

[Roarky24]

There is no fuse for the fan that I could find so I called Hisun and they confirmed that as well. As for the relay the electrical schematics does not show a relay either.  

[kenfain]

Are you certain that there's no air in the cooling system? That would cause what you've described. As to the fuse, and/or relay. There really should be both, as all electric circuits should be fused. But because that fan would have a large amp draw, a short could burn the whole thing down. But certainly there should be a relay, since that fan would likely draw too many amps for a simple switch that the heat sending unit or sensors would provide. 

[Wild child 911]

I agree that system must be bled for air. Start at motor at the thermostat, there is a bleeding screw. Motor must be running. Then move to radiator. Remove cap and at the back of radiator on towards the top on passenger side, there is a bleeding bolt. Remove bolt and have someone assist you filling radiator until water starts running out. Replace bolt and top up radiator. Install radiator cap. Remove plug on sensor  and insert bridge piece wire. Fan should then run. If fan does not run, replace sensor. You can also test heat gauge at the  thermostat by installing bridge piece. There are two sensors, do the one after the thermostat.

[JVR1330]

We have a 2017 Cub Cadet Challenger 700 and after about 250hrs - started overheating - runs great - but is definitely overheating and dumping coolant into the overflow tank.  I replaced both temp sensors - and when I let the engine idle for a while with the radiator cap off - I can see when the fan kicks on and watch the water level drop, which I assume is when the water pump kicks on.  could the air bleed remedy this as well?

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[Wild child 911]

HI. There is also a bleeding screw at the water pump. You definitely have air in the system if the level drops in radiator as this should not happen. Try bleeding at the 3 points as in previous replies.

[BigRich]

I just joined the 'overheating club' yesterday when my HiSun HS700 overheated (boiled over).

I have not tried any of the troubleshooting steps except to add the missing coolant back in and provide 12 volts to the fan. Like the others, the fan worked when I supplied the power but it is not getting the signal to turn on from the sensors.

1. Can anyone offer an explanation as to how the air gets into the system? I bough this UTV new several years ago and cannot imagine how the coolant got out or the air got in unless there is a slow leak somewhere.

2. Also, can some one provide pictures of where the three bleeding ports are on the HS700?

3. Should all bleeding be done with the engine running and the radiator cap off?

[kenfain]

 

3 hours ago, BigRich said:

I just joined the 'overheating club' yesterday when my HiSun HS700 overheated (boiled over).

I have not tried any of the troubleshooting steps except to add the missing coolant back in and provide 12 volts to the fan. Like the others, the fan worked when I supplied the power but it is not getting the signal to turn on from the sensors.

1. Can anyone offer an explanation as to how the air gets into the system? I bough this UTV new several years ago and cannot imagine how the coolant got out or the air got in unless there is a slow leak somewhere.

2. Also, can some one provide pictures of where the three bleeding ports are on the HS700?

3. Should all bleeding be done with the engine running and the radiator cap off?

There's several reasons that an engine could overheat. Air in the system is only one. And I only offered it to the o.p. as a possible cause for someone who'd tried plenty of other stuff. It's not the most likely cause of overheating though.

But as to how the coolant gets out. It goes away as steam, that the cap can't contain. Or by a leak in the system.  Air usually gets in by somehow opening the system. And we're not talking about the radiator cap. It's made to be removed. But more like changing a thermostat, or maybe changing a hose.  Something in the middle of the system. Air gets trapped, and that spoils the circulation I suppose. But you'd think that bubble would flush to the top of the radiator, but not on some systems.  I guess the radiator isn't high enough above the rest of the system or some such.  And I say that because you usually have to raise part of the vehicle to make the purge work. Typically it's the front end. Not all systems have to be purged, like for example the old American cars.  But like almost all small foreign cars, most of these types of buggies probably do. 

I only mentioned it, because it's just a cheap, easy way to eliminate this as a possible cause for overheating. If you've never opened the system in the middle, such as changing a thermostat. Then that's likely way down the list as your cause.

Your first priority is to find out why that fan isn't working. And until thats sorted out, I wouldn't be messing with anything else. If it ain't broke don't fix it till it is broke. Fix that fan issue, and I'll bet that fixes the overheating.

[BigRich]

Hi kenfain,

Thank you for your reply kenfain! I understand your reply to some extent but approaching a problem is different depending on the situation.

I know three things for certain 1. my coolant boiled over and out of my system (so I replaced it). 2. I have not opened the system for any reason since I bought it new 4 years ago (until now to refill it). 3. the fan works when power is applied.

Your suggestion "to find out why that fan isn't working" is exactly what I'm trying to do. To me it is fairly obvious that the fan is NOT being told to come on by some sensor. My job is to find out whether a senor is not triggering because it has an air pocket causing it to be unable to sense the coolant temperature or the sensor is faulty.

You also say that you "only mentioned it (bleeding air pockets from the system), because it's just a cheap, easy way to eliminate this as a possible cause for overheating". That's exactly why I want to do it before I start buying sensors or checking wiring and other more expensive and cumbersome  possibilities. I only asked for pictures of where the bleeding ports are and whether the vehicle should be running or not, or whether the radiator cap should be on or off so I can feel somewhat assured that I bleed the coolant system correctly. I'm already considering ordering a sensor anyway to have as a spare in case this happens again. I found one online for $16.00 delivered so it's not too bad a price to pay (although it is only a thermal switch with threads, a gasket, and a wire connection for goodness sake). I could be checking for "air pockets" while I am waiting for the part to arrive.

Since these vehicles have no heat (at least mine does not), I assume there is no thermostat to "get stuck" or jammed (like on regular passenger vehicles) or I would look into that next.

I would really appreciate pictures if someone could supply some. I'm 70 years old and crawling around under this thing and figuring out where the bleeding ports are is not a way I want to spend my time if someone could make that easier for me.

I've worked on cars all my life as a hobby but these things are different in so many ways.

 

[kenfain]

As I've said, its highly unlikely, up to the point of being next to impossible for an air pocket in your case.  It takes a lot of air to make that happen. The system itself will dispatch small amounts of air on its own.  As far as I know, it'll only happen when a system component is changed, and you lose most of your coolant, or if you do a coolant change. When it steams out, it comes out of the cap, so that doesn't count, and is easily handled by refilling the radiator. And it doesn't happen in all vehicles.

I fully understand about the peace of mind that would result by eliminating a potential cause of the problem. I just don't think this is it. In any case, I can't help you as to bleeding port location. Or if yours even has them. Not all vehicles have them, even among those that have the need to be bled.

My limited experience comes from purging the air from a few small cars. Although the process is mentioned in the shop service manual for my kawasaki mule. Thankfully I've never had the pleasure of bleeding my particular twin radiator set up. It's a several step process, and quite involved.

Yours probably isn't as bad, most aren't. If there's no bleed screw. Then like most small cars, you'd need to get the radiator elevated. Typically by jacking the front end up at least six inches, to a foot or so. Obviously if its a rear radiator or some such it'll be different. Remove the radiator cap, and replace it with a special attachable funnel. This funnel isn't hard to find, nor is it absolutely necessary. But it is about twenty bucks. But it has a variety of adapters making it fairly universal. Some people use a plastic 2 liter bottle, or similar, with the bottom cut off of it. I prefer the zero mess of the funnel. I find the bottle method to be a quite messy, three handed, with hands on it at all times affair. Although the internet shows people going mess free through the whole process. The funnel allows for mostly supervision only. Just waiting on the temp to rise. You could be there waiting awhile. Since the cap is off, it'll naturally take longer because of physics that I don't really understand.

When the engine gets up to temp, the thermostat opens, and the level rises because of the heat, and the circulation. There will be a surge of scalding hot coolant up into the funnel. This is what you're waiting on, and if you're using a bottle, you'd better be prepared for it. The funnel fills. If there's air, then it'll gurgle dramatically, then go way down. You refill, and you're done. All you have to do is check and refill the overflow reservoir as needed till it stabilizes over the next few rides. And your problem is likely solved. If there's NO air, then you'll have to wait till it cools, before all the coolant goes back into the radiator. The process is easier said than done, as it's a simple process, easily described. But it may take MANY tries, and can be quite messy, till you get the hang of it. Some people get it the first try. But coolant isn't the easiest cleanup, nor is it especially cheap. That's why I prefer the funnel, which actually attaches to the radiator, exactly like the cap does. 

I'd suggest that if you're set on trying this. That you first try to use the internet for an exact procedure for your exact machine. If none is found, then I'd look for the bleeder screw, typically located in an easily accessible hard point, such as the thermostat housing, or alongside the temp sensor.  If that doesn't work out, I'd proceed to the process described above using the bottle first. See what kind of fit you can get into the opening. You might get lucky, but I'd still try to seal around it, and try to secure it. The last thing you want to do is try holding a flimsy bottle in place while its steaming your hand. Maybe make a handle out of tape or some such. Possibly use a stiffer bottle if possible, such as a bleach bottle, or washer fluid bottle. 

If you do have a bleed screw, the process is much simpler. It only requires that you open it while running when cool, and when the coolant runs out, you close it. Then refill coolant.

Our very own forum moderator @Travis is our MVP with his Google abilities. Maybe if there's nobody else helpful with finding the cooling system bleed procedure. He would be willing to give it a shot. If its in print somewhere, I'd bet he could find it. And he's typically most helpful.

At any rate, as I've said. I'm convinced that your problem lies squarely in that cooling fan. As that's a leading cause, by far, of the condition you're having. Find out why its not coming on by itself, and you'll have this mystery solved. That process is quite an elusive task, and has been the bain of many a backyard mechanic, as the causes can vary.

When you've solved this mystery PLEASE share your findings. The work, and pain that your going through, could be extremely useful for those who come along afterwards. So many times there's been common problems that are shared by many. Some posts are several years old. You know that their problem must surely be solved by now. But unfortunately they never bothered to share their experience. So please give us the courtesy of a follow-up. So that well all be richer for it. Good luck sir. And if you have any other questions that I can answer...I'll be happy to help any way that I can.

[BigRich]

Hello again kenfain,

I found some helpful videos on YouTube. And I am now confident that my radiator temperature sensor is faulty. Bypassing it alone made the fan work. Heck, now that I know how to bypass it I will probably carry a paperclip with me in the glove box. In an emergency I could put water in the UTV and make the fan work until I got home and could properly repair the vehicle.

I've ordered a temperature sensor so it may take a week or more to get back here with a confirmation that it fixed the problem.

Most folks probably go to their favorite place for parts but I thought I'd share the one I found. The price for my temperature sensor with shipping and tax was $14.88. I feel that is quite reasonable and it comes with a gasket as it should. The web site, for those who may be interested, is https://www.vmcchineseparts.com/collections/hisun-700cc-utv-parts-list They have parts lists for a fair number of ATV's and UTV's.

Thank you for the help and suggestions kenfain.

Here's the YouTube video that talks about testing/bypassing the sensor. The guy sort of mumbles when he says (about 41 seconds into the video) what to do with the jumper he refers to but I'm sure he's trying to say to jumper between the two connections and turn on the ignition (that's what I did with a paperclip). Please let me know if you can make out what he says.

 

[kenfain]

I believe you're right about the video. And it would make sense that this test would point to the sensor as the problem. But there's lots of people who've jumped that fan, and then replaced the sensor. Only to find the issue is still there. Maybe, like some fuel pumps, and other cheap Chinese electronics. The replacement sensors can be bad out of the box? Don't know what their ultimate solution was, since we rarely hear the final outcomes. Some of those threads are years old, certainly their problem is long solved. It's a shame that people rarely share their ultimate solutions, but its that way across all forums. Let's hope that in your case, that its just the sensor and a simple fix.

Thanks for sharing your findings up to this point. Good luck! Please keep us posted.

[BigRich]

Perhaps some people are not clear as to how they tested the fan? At first, I did not jumper past the sensor, I ran12 volts straight to the blue wire on the fan connector. It still proves the fan is working but it does not indicate that the senor would not have worked if the conditions were met. The test in the video directly bypasses the sensor making it the likely cause if the fan turns on.

It would help if we knew the specs to trip the sensor. Perhaps if we removed the sensor and placed a temporary plug in the radiator to keep the coolant in and then placed the sensor in a cup of heated water with the ignition switch on it would be a better test, but we'd need to know what the temperature of the water needs to be... 130, 140, 150, xxx?

Here (attached) is the schematic of the sensor switch but no temperature specification. I have not held the actual sensor in my hand but perhaps, like a car radiator thermostat, it has markings on it to let us know what the temperature range is. Anyone else know?

 

[BigRich]

Well, no one replied with the correct temperature so I assume no one knows. I'm guessing it is pretty high since the sensor I tested turned on at approximately 190 degrees.

My HS700 boiled over so the temperature had to be over 225 or as much as 265 degrees in a sealed radiator system and a 50/50 mixture of water and antifreeze.

I tested the new sensor by putting a little less than an inch of water in a bowl and bringing the water to a boil in my microwave. My meter measures 00.0 when there is continuity or the sensor is shorted to allow 12 volts through to turn on the fan. My meter displays 0L when the path is open or there is no continuity and therefor no 12 volts to turn the fan on.

As you can see the sensor switches "on" somewhere between 183 degrees and 194 degrees. I hope that's correct. I have uploaded photos of the senor in both the on and off condition depending on the temperature of the water as you can read on the digital thermometer with its probe in the water.

I installed it in mt UTV and ran the motor until the fan ran. It worked and even after I turned the engine off (the engine is still hot), if I turned the ignition back on, the fan came on as it should.

[kenfain]

Congrats, it sounds like we can call this fixed!

Of course you did the heavy lifting. We were just along for the ride mostly. But thanks for following through with the story, and pictures. Every little bit helps, and it leaves a searchable example of cause, effect, and ultimate solution. If I were a moderator, I'd give it, its own thread, and make it a sticky. 

[Lyonel Geary]

I've had electrical connection problems with my 2014 Bennche 700 crew.  I think some of the electrical devices on the machine pull too much current and need heavier connectors.  The plug to the  radiator fan melted down and fuel pump connector wouldn't maintain contact.  I replaced both with something heavier.

[BigRich]

I bought my Coleman HS700 new in June of 2015 and this is the second problem with it and I rarely use it.

In December of 2018, after only 20 hours of operation it failed to start and I troubleshot it to the fuel pump not getting voltage. The local shop repaired the wire harness with the wire that went to the fuel pump.

This design has some definite wiring issues.

I'm not thrilled but this vehicle did cost about 2/3rds what the more widely known brands cost so I think it boils down to the old adage, you get what you pay for. I'm only into this for $300.00 in repairs on the $9,300.00 purchase five years ago so .  I'm sure the more expensive ones aren't problem free either.

At least it hasn't left me out on the trail.... yet! Fingers crossed.

[Lyonel Geary]

I often drive my 2014 Bennche 700X slowly when I run my house dogs.  I got tired of it overheating and made the radiator fan run all the time and installed additional electric water pump.  Has not overheated since.

[kenfain]

4 minutes ago, Lyonel Geary said:

I often drive my 2014 Bennche 700X slowly when I run my house dogs.  I got tired of it overheating and made the radiator fan run all the time and installed additional electric water pump.  Has not overheated since.

I've often wondered why more people haven't done this, or at least add a manual switch. Given the number of people who have overheating problems. It seems like a logical next step. 

If it continues to work out for you. You should consider making a step by step how-to for the process. And share it with the forum. So others can solve this issue, should they want to go that direction. 

Besides, we love projects with pictures.