2004 Mule 550, compression loss overnight!!

[rmissildine]

Update... Just checked, parts are on the FedEx truck for delivery today. Don't know what time, times vary with them. Hopefully, they'll get here early enough so that I can get everything back together this afternoon. Man, it's been a long wait!!!

[rmissildine]

Well darn!!! (can't write what was actually on my mind). Parts came in around 4;30pm EST. I was in the middle of a project for the wife so I couldn't stop. When I did get around to checking the parts, I was really upset. First, they didn't send one of the o-rings for the converter drive back cover. Second, and really disturbing, I checked the piston rings, no mark for the top side of the first and second ring!!

Now I've rebuilt enough engines to know that the ring with the shiney edge is the compression or top ring. The dull one is the oil scraper. And of course the three part ring is the oil ring. My manual says that the top and second rings are not symmetrical, and must be installed with the marked side facing up. I've seen this on all the rings I've  installed, some sort of mark for the top side of the ring.  As I said, no marks.

Has Kawasaki changed the rings??? I really wanted to start putting this engine back together tomorrow morning, now I'm kinda wondering if the orientation makes a difference.

Travis, how did your rings look??

Oh, by the way, the other o-ring was shipped out today, be next week before it gets here.

HELP!!!!!

Roger

 

[Travis]

I honestly cant remember... do you still have the rings from the piston?

there is ring that is supposed to have a slight bevel to it.... thats the 2nd ring.

i have an extra set im looking at.... it looks to me like the ring with the shiny edge is the 2nd one, i can see a slight bevel to its edge... the black ring ring goes on top with the red mark on the right hand side of the gap.

 

[rmissildine]

Yes, I still have the old set. I'll look at the old set and new set and compare them. I honestly couldn't see any bevel on either one and of course they weren't wrapped seperatly as some ring set are. I do see the red mark on the one ring, just can't see any bevel. I'll check them out a little closer in the morning...

Thanks Travis.

Roger

[rmissildine]

IT'S ALIVE!!!!!

Yesterday morning, I decided to give Babbitts a call, well chat anyway, to see if they could verify the order of the first and second rings.  Their chat line is the parts department, so I was told by them. They had no clue as to the order of the rings. Funny, most parts departments have some knowledge or at least will ask a mechanic and try to get an answer. Not Babbitts!! But, while I was waiting on the session to begin, I took a closer look at the new rings. Low and behold, under the light of my desk lamp, I found the "R" mark on the solid black ring but nothing on the shiny edged one.  Just so you know, I had the red paint mark on the left side and the mark was right near the ring gap. Took the ring out from under the bright light and couldn't make out the mark. Travis, you might want to take a look at yours again and see if it's in the same location. I tried to take some pictures but the mark wasn't visible.

Anyway, after that frustrating chat session, I took the new rings and other parts out to the shop to compare with the old ones. I think I said earlier that I remembered the second ring had the "R" visible on the top side, it did. When I looked at the old top ring, it had the shiny edge. So, I figured since that's the way it came apart I'd put it back together the same way. Checked the ring end gap in the bore, both rings in spec. So, black ring on bottom, red mark to the left, shiny ring on top. Since there is no orientation mark on the top ring, it can go either way.

Got it all back together and torqued down, new oil filter and oil, adjust the valves. Now for the moment of truth... It  fired right up!! Had to adjust the idle just a bit but she idled good.

Rode it around the back yard just a bit at low speed, seems to run better and quieter than before.

Today, I'll finish the clean up and get the bed back on. Sure is nice to have the old girl running again!!!

Roger

[Travis]

Wooo Hooooo!!!!!!!

glad you got it going Roger!

The ring orientation was difficult for me when I did mine, I just had to keep looking at them for about 3 days and the "Bingo!" Light came on.

Kawasaki could have made it easier to identify them.

 

[Travis]

On my black ring, with the red mark, the red mark, and the "R" is On the right.

[rmissildine]

Yes Travis, looking at the ring from your orientation, at the ring gap, the red mark and "R"  will be on the right. If you look at it with the gap away from you and from the top, it'll be on the left. Make any sense?? For some reason, I've always looked from the top down or from the top of the piston down...

Thanks again,

Roger

[rmissildine]

I agree with Kawasaki making it easier, like packaging the top and second rings in sleeves marked top or #1 and second or #2 as some other manufacturers do...

[Travis]

1 hour ago, rmissildine said:

Yes Travis, looking at the ring from your orientation, at the ring gap, the red mark and "R"  will be on the right. If you look at it with the gap away from you and from the top, it'll be on the left. Make any sense?? For some reason, I've always looked from the top down or from the top of the piston down...

Thanks again,

Roger

Yep, that does make sense!

Glad you got her going again, take care!

[Travis]

How's the Mule doing, Roger?

[rmissildine]

Hey Travis. Well, it's going. Seems like I get one thing fixed and something else acts up.

When I bought the mule back in 2016, it needed a little work, like carb adjustment, wiring issues, etc. but it did run. So when I got it home, I ordered a main wiring harness and a regulator / rectifier(the old one was toast). Got that on and went to the carb issue. Someone had tried to remove the pilot jet and really butchered the screw driver slot so bad it wouldn't come out. So I ordered a new (aftermarket) carb. Got it on, adjusted somewhat. The new carb has a plastic piece over the pilot screw so it only moves about a half a turn.  Since the top end rebuild it has started stuttering when I give it a little throttle when it's cold, just a tad bit better once it's warm.

After looking at at the carb, I don't know if that plastic piece will come off, maybe. But I need to be able to bottom out the pilot screw and adjust it according to the manual.

So, that's where I'm at. Other than that the mule runs fine now...

Roger

[Travis]

Those plastic limiter caps sometimes pop off with a screwdriver, or you can file the ears down that stop it,  and some people use a dremel and put a flat slot in it for a screw driver.

I have mine set I think 2.5 turns out..... The manual says to turn it out where the engine idles the highest, then adjust the screw on the throttle butterfly to idle.

[rmissildine]

I was hoping it may slide off. The limiter cap has a slot in it, but not sure about the actual pilot screw. I haven't taken the time to try it yet with so much going on, but hopefully this weekend. My manual just says to turn the pilot screw out one turn I believe. I'll have to check again to make sure. But your manual seems to be the way I've always adjusted these small carbs. If I can't easily remove that limiter cap, I'll try removing the tabs.

Thanks,

Roger

[Travis]

Hi Roger,

I went out To the barn and got the original Carburetor that took off the mule,,I was able to get that limiter cap off.  A screw driver and hammer.

It has a funny looking head under it, you can use pliers to turn it.

[rmissildine]

Thanks Travis. Your pictures show what I was expecting. While I didn't do anything to the carb yesterday, I did crank it up and rode it a bit. While riding I was thinking (dangerous!!) that before I rebuilt the top end and put on the new Dayco belt, I didn't have this problem, my wife used it the most and she would not have been able to operate it like this. So after starting and stopping several times, shifting in and out of gear, I realized that the driven pulley or converter, is constantly turning, not only causing hard shifting but also putting an instant load on the engine possibly causing that stutter.... That also explains why the diff lock doesn't want to engage now.

So before I go messing with the carb I'm gonna order a new Gates 6013 and see if that helps any first, then if need be, I'll work with the carb.

Thanks,

Roger

[Travis]

Actually on mine, the driven converter has always spun at idle, even several years ago with the Original Kawasaki belt. But i definitely noticed better idleing, and another shifting with the gates belt. compared to the dayco.

[rmissildine]

Hey Travis,

Thanks for your input. But, I was wondering, before I rebuilt the top end and replaced the belt, once I started it up and let the idle settle out, it went into gear much like our 2020 SX does. Just a little gear bump when shifting into gear, if you know what I mean. Unlike now, I have the idle as low as I can get it and still run, it acts like the rpm's are way to high and wants to really grind going into gear every time.  So after thinking about it again (still dangerous), I was wondering, with the Dayco being a bit tighter, could the driven converter may be spinning a bit faster, where as with a longer belt, it would still spin, but possibly not as fast or with less pressure, allowing the transmission to shift smoother and allowing the diff lock to engage properly???

With the diff lock, I replaced the cable and adjusted it to the book. Didn't want to engage properly with the engine off and spinning the rear wheels. So I readjusted the cable and it locked every time whether I was spinning the rear wheels or not, but as soon as I cranked it up, let the idle settle out, it won't engage...  Now, I don't have a single cylinder tach or a mechanical tach, but if I idled it any lower, it wouldn't stay running, tried that, got the tee shirt and empty bud cans to prove, oops, I mean coffee cup to prove it.....  Just having fun. Anyway I've ordered a new Gates belt off ebay, should be here by the first of June, hopefully sooner. Then it's back off with the bed and right rear wheel and all that to replace it. But if it works, great, if not, you wanna buy a 2004 550 mule??? Just kidding again, I'm gonna fix it..

Roger

[Travis]

I noticed that after I put the new gates on, the pulley was spinning, but there wasn't as much pressure on it,  my Mule has been cantankerous with the diff lock forever, in my owner's manual it said the mule may have to roll a few feet before it engages. I've had that rear axle out with that diff engage assembly, the two gears that mesh to provide posi trac, the teeth on them are rather large so it has to be lined up perfectly, 

Idle speed should be at or close to 1350 rpm.

[rmissildine]

Thanks Travis. I have tried letting it roll a bit, maybe not enough though. May have the cable too tight also, I'll check it again after I get the new belt on.

What do you use for a tach to adjust the idle, or do you adjust it by sound, like I have to do???

Thanks again,

Roger

[Travis]

I just do it by ear, but I just ordered a Tiny Tach off eBay to do it Right.

[rmissildine]

I was thinking of the same thing about the tiny tach. I'll probably get one for myself...

Thanks,

Roger

 

[rmissildine]

Update.....

Well, after bouncing around Texas for a couple of days, my new gates belt is finally on it's way to Alabama.  And when I say bouncing, I really mean USPS must have walked it.  It left Decatur TX around 10 pm Tuesday night, got to Fort Worth around 11:30 pm the same night. Left Fort Worth around 7pm Wednesday night, 20 hours after it arrived.  Got to Irvine around 7:40 pm the same night. Left Irvine around Noon today, around 16 hours after it arrived... I checked the driving times to the different cities it traveled to, and the total was only around 100 miles... Gotta love USPS!!!  Scheduled to arrive Saturday.

But that's probably a good thing as it's been raining off and on all week, can't cut grass, work on the hay shed, work on the backhoe, it's pretty much stay in the house until we get a break in the rain to feed the horses...

Anyway, had to vent a bit, now I'm all better!!!

Take Care,

Roger

 

[Travis]

I've seen some USPS packages take strange routes!!!

I ordered a part from Pennsylvania one time, it went from Pennsylvania, to Ohio, Wyoming, Nevada, New Mexico, Oklahoma.... Finally 4 days after the 3 day guarantee arrival time, it made it to Dallas... Then to Austin... Then from Austin to Houston then finally to Conroe.....

[rmissildine]

I know what ya mean. Back when I was ordering parts for the mule, I had one part that arrived in Montgomery, AL, which is the middle AL hub, went to Opelika, AL, about 30 miles north of me, then back to Montgomery, and then here to Fort Mitchell the next day, one day after the 2 day priority mail guarantee.....

Gotta love the USPS.

[rmissildine]

EUREKA!!!!! Got the new Gates belt in today, installed and tested this afternoon. Man, what a difference. No more grinding going into gear, smooth shifting from forward to reverse, diff lock works better, although I did let it roll a bit. Still stutters a bit when pulling off even after turning the idle up a bit. So, now it's get the limiter cap off the pilot screw and see if I can tweak the carb a bit to clear that up.

Travis, I want to thank you for all your input, without it, I would have been lost. There's not a lot of info about the 550 on the internet, although there are great machines, for what they are designed for.

I'll post the results about the carb as soon as I get a chance. May be a while, got a lot going on...

Take care and God bless,

Roger

[Travis]

That's Great Roger!!!!!

Glad I can help

[rmissildine]

Got to work on the carb yesterday, after I blew a pressure hose on the front end loader. That's gonna tear up a $200.00 bill!!!

Anyway, got the limiter cap off, ground off the stop tab and popped it back on so as to have a screw driver slot to adjust with.  Cranked up the mule and let it warm up, about 10 minutes or so. Started by closing down on the pilot screw to drop the idle, then began slowly backing it out until the highest idle was reached and wouldn't go any higher, turned it back in about 1/8 of a turn or so, readjusted the idle, by ear to what seemed close. Idled great. Time for a test ride.  Pulled off very smoothly with no stutter, all the way up high speed. Ran like a champ. Tried it several times in forward and reverse, same response. The only time it wanted to stumble was when I'd get down on it from a dead stop, then a bit but cleared right up. Since these aren't racing machines, and they're driven for what they are, a utility vehicle, I couldn't be happier.

Travis, I want to thank you again for all the help and support. Let me know if you ever need anything...

Roger

[Travis]

Likewise,Roger. Glad I could help.

[Joey S.]

I have a 1999 Mule 550 which only had 25 psi on compression test. Leak down test indicated cylinder or rings issue, as I could clearly hear the air leaking when I removed the dip stick. Nothing out of the exhaust, & maybe a little out of the intake. I've removed the head, & there's a lot of carbon build up on the valves. I've ordered new valves, & am engine rebuilt kit, complete with piston & rings. When you pulled your piston, did you remove the engine, or were you able to remove the piston while the engine was in the frame? Thanks! I made the mistake of buying this sight unseen while I was deployed, & didn't think about asking for a compression test prior to paying.