What do you do when

[Travis]

Ground is good,  all connections are clean and tight. Ignition switch and Relay's have tested good.

 I did switch batteries with a known good one from my mower with the old starter, still had the issue. I Replaced the flywheel when i rebuilt the engine, and the teeth look good.

 My uncle has a load tester, so i am going to borrow that again and load test again, and i ordered a clamp Amp meter to test amp draw.

 

 

[Travis]

but it's so weird how intermittent it is, if it were the battery i would think it would be more of a constant issue?

 All i know is electricity is crazy and i'm crazier, so i ordered a new + cable, and then the amp meter should be here tomorrow, and i'll load test the battery in a bit.

[Travis]

Okay, took the battery out and headed over to my Uncle's place, load tested it, and it held at about 11.8 with load, and unloaded voltage is 12.8

[kenfain]

15 hours ago, Travis said:

However, it does seem strange that if it were a cable issue where it can't carry the amperage, why did it spin the starter over just fine when i shorted the solenoid?

and another thing, by me holding the key in start, that's putting voltage on the trigger wire, which retracts the plunger and makes contact with the Big+ to pass currrent to the starter motor , so if i hold the key all the way  in start, the solenoid is engaging, current just isn't being passed through, then when i short the two studs, it passes current to the motor.

 You know, i just wonder if the trigger requires certain amps also?  have to break open my manual..

Let's look at these one at a time. Starting when shorting across the solenoid doesn't really mean much at this time. Since it started just fine before...and  later on, after doing this. Now if that were the only way it'd start. That would be something. But that neither rules out, nor indicates a bad solenoid. But I agree, it does seem suspicious all the same. That fancy ammeter would tell you the amperage under load of both sides of the solenoid. 

The second item about the key, and the lack of current. If it's multiple clicking, it's getting current. Just not enough amps to start. Is it getting insufficient amps to start? Or is there a reason why the starter is now requiring more amps?

You could take it apart and see if you can see anything obvious. Maybe lubricate the bearings. But since chinese junk is delicate you run the risk of causing other problems. Like a cracked magnet, or even something crazy. Like the thread where another member had his starter run backwards. 

And last, about the ignition getting amps. Those amps are very low. Evidenced by the small wiring. Lots of amps, equals larger guage wire.

[Travis]

12 minutes ago, kenfain said:

 

The second item about the key, and the lack of current. If it's multiple clicking, it's getting current. Just not enough amps to start. Is it getting insufficient amps to start? Or is there a reason why the starter is now requiring more amps?

 

 

 It only clicked whenever i moved the key from On to Start, i never got rapid clicking with the key held in start.

 I got a Amp meter ordered, should arrive tomorrow,  i went with a Mid Price range one, rather than the  $19.99 deals.  If i had to get one one for work and i'd buy a Klein or other name brand, but once or twice i hope it will do fine.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07Z398YWF/ref=sspa_dk_detail_0?pd_rd_i=B07Z398YWF&pd_rd_w=p1auc&pf_rd_p=14ceaa6a-1e28-4d0f-a108-58cc89c508f1&pd_rd_wg=4xvL4&pf_rd_r=VNZHCJD90WGD170VRJ5E&pd_rd_r=22625a41-1740-4e38-9387-a7058b60b280&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUE0OTExV1pYNUhERlImZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTAwODc1NzAxUEE2RU0yTkFSVjJOJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA5NTQ0NDkySUdaTVczS0RYNEtUJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfZGV0YWlsX3RoZW1hdGljJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ&th=1

[kenfain]

Where was this click at? If it's a single click at the battery, it's usually a bad connection. Single click at the solenoid might indicate that part is bad. Single click in the starter is the bendix. Usually a sign that there's not enough amps. 

Sounds to me like a true intermittent problem. You'll have to diagnose it on the fly, as it acts up. That ammeter should provide some insight. 

[Travis]

Sounded like it was coming from the starter motor, more of a Clunk, than a click now that i think of it.

[kenfain]

2 hours ago, Travis said:

Okay, took the battery out and headed over to my Uncle's place, load tested it, and it held at about 11.8 with load, and unloaded voltage is 12.8

That should be plenty 

[kenfain]

3 minutes ago, Travis said:

Sounded like it was coming from the starter motor, more of a Clunk, than a click now that i think of it.

That's typically what the bendix sounds like. At this point, assuming the cable is indeed good. It seems to be  narrowed down to either the solenoid,  or the starter motor.

[Mackc]

7 minutes ago, kenfain said:

That should be plenty 

A good strong fully charged battery that is tested with this type of tester should read around 13.6 volts with no load and hold 12 volts under load, and return to 12.8 volta or more unless it has a bad cell or a bad terminal.

$37.xx on Amazon

4 minutes ago, kenfain said:

That's typically what the bendix sounds like. At this point, assuming the cable is indeed good. It seems to be  narrowed down to either the solenoid,  or the starter motor.

 

[kenfain]

We know that the starter works. And it's entirely possible for it to have internal intermittent problems.

But with all that we know now.  My money would be on the solenoid 

[kenfain]

1 minute ago, Mackc said:

A good strong fully charged battery that is tested with this type of tester should read around 13.6 volts with no load and hold 12 volts under load, and return to 12.8 volta or more unless it has a bad cell or a bad terminal.

$37.xx on Amazon

 

13. 6 is what it should read with the engine running. It'll be significantly less sitting on the bench.

[Travis]

1 hour ago, Mackc said:

A good strong fully charged battery that is tested with this type of tester should read around 13.6 volts with no load and hold 12 volts under load, and return to 12.8 volta or more unless it has a bad cell or a bad terminal.

$37.xx on Amazon

 

This is a small engine, with a small engine battery, a small engine alternator (stator).

I have never seen a battery sit at 13.6 volts. On a small Mule/atv or lawnmower.

13.6 is great charging voltage though while running.

Did you see my post that i got the battery load tested? 

It was perfectly in the Green 

[kenfain]

@Travis, I was just over at partzilla. That's who I bought the radiator cap from. Because they were the cheapest.  And I couldn't remember which mule you had, so I looked at several different mule starters. I have to say, those starters were much cheaper than I would've thought. Not denso, but not Ebay junk either. If you find that you need a starter, you should check in at partzilla. Might find a deal. 

[Travis]

19 minutes ago, kenfain said:

@Travis, I was just over at partzilla. That's who I bought the radiator cap from. Because they were the cheapest.  And I couldn't remember which mule you had, so I looked at several different mule starters. I have to say, those starters were much cheaper than I would've thought. Not denso, but not Ebay junk either. If you find that you need a starter, you should check in at partzilla. Might find a deal. 

01 Mule 550 KAF300C5.

 everywhere i looked last month, OEM denso starters are about $300-$400.

 I did find an Aftermarket Moose racing starter for it on partzilla , $143, i came across that starter last month too and found that it's also made by Arrowhead industries, which is what i got for $90 from a  arrowhead dealer.

 

[Travis]

fed again today, Mule started up fine every single time.

[kenfain]

22 minutes ago, Travis said:

01 Mule 550 KAF300C5.

 everywhere i looked last month, OEM denso starters are about $300-$400.

 I did find an Aftermarket Moose racing starter for it on partzilla , $143, i came across that starter last month too and found that it's also made by Arrowhead industries, which is what i got for $90 from a  arrowhead dealer.

 

I figured you'd seen those. Just thought I'd mention it, with it being currently a topic. It was the moose that I saw. And something from Dennis Kirk, but I didn't click on it. It's probably all the same stuff. But since I didn't know which model, it would've been pointless to search.

[kenfain]

25 minutes ago, Travis said:

fed again today, Mule started up fine every single time.

Try tapping on that solenoid next time it happens. 

[T-boss 410]

Does your starter have a bendix, or is it a clutch type starter?

[Travis]

Just now, T-boss 410 said:

Does your starter have a bendix, or is it a clutch type starter?

Solenoid Shift A.K.A Clutch.

[T-boss 410]

Almost sounds like what mine was doing. Replacing the solenoid seemed to help mine. The UTV only had 14.6 hours on it, so you wouldn't think the solenoid would be bad already. When I checked the resistance between the 2, the OEM one was much higher. I don't understand it, but I don't understand how the starter was running backwards, either. 

[Travis]

3 minutes ago, T-boss 410 said:

Almost sounds like what mine was doing. Replacing the solenoid seemed to help mine. The UTV only had 14.6 hours on it, so you wouldn't think the solenoid would be bad already. When I checked the resistance between the 2, the OEM one was much higher. I don't understand it, but I don't understand how the starter was running backwards, either. 

so far mine ain't running  bass ackwards, yet

this starter has roughly 20 hours on it, but then again, it hasn't given me a problem since yesterday.

 

[Travis]

boy it really acted up this afternoon about 4 starts on it today, They sent me the wrong meter, It only tests  AC amperage and not DC.... so i couldn't see what amperage the starter was pulling. 😐 

but i did bang on the solenoid and on the 6th bang it spun over, then later not even banging it would make it work, had to short across the posts. whenever the key switch is in start and the solenoid is pulled on, the 2nd + post on the starter (Not the main Cable connection) that takes power to the starter motor, i was reading about 1.8 volts, almost 2 volts. when it wasn't spinning over, when it was spinning over it showed 11.8-.9

[Travis]

i almost had a brain storm moment, while im waiting on the new + cable,  i got the load tester, and hooked it to the starter end of the cable, and then the - lead just reached to the ground spot. so that worked out, i put a load on it and it held perfect in the green.

 My thinking is that might tell me the condition of the battery cable?

[kenfain]

I'm still casting my vote for a bad solenoid. 

[Travis]

23 minutes ago, kenfain said:

I'm still casting my vote for a bad solenoid. 

There may be more votes for something else "show up"   

I contacted the place i ordered it from, since the start isn't even a month and a half old quite yet, to see if they can send me another possibly. I do have a spare solenoid that is known to be good.

[Travis]

i guess i'll try to install that spare solenoid today, last night i went out to see what it would do, just for the heck of it, and a few times whenever it would click, it almost sounded like i heard arcing, or a bad connection, kind of muffled., so kept looking at all external battery connection, (both + and - ends) never saw any sparking, it almost sounds like it's coming from internal in that solenoid.... weird.

 

[Travis]

i haven't got around to installing the spare solenoid yet.

 weird occurrence today, it wouldn't start, so i shorted the posts and held the key in start, the starter motor would spin, but the gear would not kick out to the flywheel. And before whenever i short the posts and hold the key in start the gear would mesh with the flywheel.... i think next i will remove the blower housing so i can see what the gear is doing while it clicks.

what drives me insane is how intermittent the problem is, it went from monday to wednesday starting up PERFECT, no issues at all. and today it acted up again.

still waiting on my new + cable.

However i want an opinion on this, i cleaned my ground cable ends up and where they bolt too real good today with my dremel tool,  i noticed my ground cable has some green corrosion starting  at one end, i might ought to strip the coating back some and see how far it goes. i tested resistance on it and got 00.1 ohms on it...

Ohms confuse me so if someone could translate what that means please  

[T-boss 410]

So your starter works like an automotive type? Mine is a clutch type, meaning that the flywheel will spin freely in one direction and lock up in the other. So I don't have a gear that kicks out to contact the flywheel, it's always meshed with the flywheel. 

So whatever acts as a bendix with your starter sounds like it may not be functioning properly. 

[kenfain]

It means that you need a new cable. An open wire ohm test, should be infinity, and is represented by all zeros.

Doesn't sound like much resistance. But a cable with noticeable corrosion, could easily cause the problem that you've been having.