What do you do when

[Joe Breaux]

I feel your pain  

[Travis]

I'm done with this thing..... i thought it wasn't going to start today, turn the key, click. turn the key, click, turn the key click, about 30 times... the battery voltage would drop about 1/2 a volt when i turned the key to start and it would hit... then it started about 3 or 4 times with no problem....

I'm confident it is not a physical Flywheel ring gear /starter gear issue as i did an experiment where i marked on the flywheel with a sharpie what position it would be in when the starter would not turn over, and it never was in the same spot. I'm confident it's not the starter or solenoid as i've bench tested them according to the manual and the good folks at O'reilly's have tested my starter and load tested the battery. I think the wiring is just not quite able to carry the load to mesh the flywheel and starter gear since it's the solenoids job to pull it in and mesh it. and of course when i short from the + lug on the starter  to the trigger tab, it  will spin every time, all day long with no issue.

I'm trying to think of a way i can bypass the entire starting system/circuit..... what i'm thinking of doing is run a hot wire from the battery, to a momentary push button switch on the dash. and run a wire from the switch to the starter solenoid trigger tab. so when you want to start it, turn the key to on so you can have power to accessories and so the ignition will work,  then to start it, press that button.

and maybe one day when i get time, i'll buy a new wiring harness for the old gal... RM atv has them for $150.. so that's not  too bad of a dent in the pocketbook. Plus after 20 years of being outdoors in this southeast Texas humidity... i'm sure thats an issue.

 

 

 

Edited May 8, 2021 by Travis
Woops, forgot to capitalize Texas :P

[kenfain]

Sounds like a good, solid plan. My guess is that if this solves the no start condition, there's no real need for a new harness. So I'd stay mindful of creating something that'll stand up over time. 

 

[Travis]

What gauge wire do you think I should use? I was reading online that starter solenoid triggers can draw up to 10 or 12 amps. The original trigger wire appears to be 18 or 20 gauge.....i think..

Thinking of 16 gauge probably... Since i have distance to consider.

[kenfain]

19 minutes ago, Travis said:

What gauge wire do you think I should use? I was reading online that starter solenoid triggers can draw up to 10 or 12 amps. The original trigger wire appears to be 18 or 20 gauge.....i think..

Thinking of 16 gauge probably... Since i have distance to consider.

Depending on the location of the solenoid, there's no real need to mount the button on the dash. You could easily mount it somewhere around the seat, within easy reach, with shorter wires. 

Momentarily handling that modest amount of amps shouldn't be any reason to up the guage significantly. I would think that 18g. would work fine. 

[Travis]

i did think about putting it on the plastic shroud that goes over the gear shift and diff lever  and choke cable  just left and below the seat but it's kind of prone to weeds and briars  grabbing it and weather, of course a waterproof switch  will be used.

[Travis]

Okay, here's something i'm going to try for the sake of trying it.. and maybe it might help out some other folks if they ever have this problem.

 I found that John deere sells what they call a "Starter improvement Relay" for issues when there is a voltage drop  in the trigger/starter circuit.

Why does this work? Because the solenoid  on these engines pull a few amps and hence cause too much of a voltage drop to fully pull it in. What this kit does is put a heavy duty relay right near the starter and solenoid and the coil field of this relay draws much less current. Less current >> less voltage drop through the components in the trigger circuit(switches, connections, etc) so it has no problem pulling in when you go to start. When it does, it connects the trigger wire from the solenoid right to the battery voltage available at the solenoid.

https://www.amazon.com/AM107421-Improvement-Starter-Replacement-Models/dp/B08JGLPMQ2/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=john+deere+starter+improvement+relay&qid=1621357095&sr=8-3

 

[Joe Breaux]

thats a new one on me.. but if it works.... great

[Dan B]

In theory, it works.  Treating the symptom doesn't fix the problem.  The root cause of the problem is poor, corroded connections.  If this was a real problem, it should have manifested itself when the machine was new.  These machines don't ride in the best of conditions - deep water and mud followed by dusty trails, etc.   They take more maintenance that the family car.  It doesn't take much resistance due to corrosion to lose 2-3 volts at the starter.

[Travis]

well, every connection related to the starting system has been replaced, and there is still a drop in the current. and the wiring harness on this thing.... they've got it tucked and shoved around. i'm just tired of dealing with it and hopefully this can remedy the issue. maybe one day  when i have the time i'll do it right and either replace the harness  or replace the wires themselves for the starting system only,

[Travis]

[Travis]

Red wire goes to the + lug on the solenoid

Black wire to ground (Frame, engine, wherever there is a good spot for a ground) i wire brushed the bolt and spot the ground wire goes to prior to installing it.

Purple wire with the MALE connector plugs into your  trigger wire

Purple wire with the FEMALE connector plugs into your trigger tab on the solenoid.

Putting it right there was the only spot i could think of.  i drill a 1/4" hole in that metal plate, also it gets a little bit of cooling air from the fan there.

 

[Joe Breaux]

soooooooo....., does it work? 

[Travis]

4 minutes ago, Joe Breaux said:

soooooooo....., does it work? 

works fine... but other things have worked fine for a a week or two... so i'm going to hold my breath for about a month.. LOL

[Joe Breaux]

good luck.. hope it cures it... on a side note, my MSU/Yamaha hybrid  still running fine.. Shocks the hell outta me but I aint complaining.. finally getting my money's worth out of it ... maybe one day  I can say its 20 yrs old and still going... lol  wishful thinking ,you say? lol

[Travis]

maybe a tad on the wishful side... It may turn into a Johnny Cash song.. eventually you may have a Yamaha UTV "One piece at  a time"

[Joe Breaux]

we can only hope

[Travis]

31 days with no issues with the John Deere starter assist relay... 36 days is the goal to beat.

[T-boss 410]

Are you trying to jinx yourself?

[Travis]

4 hours ago, T-boss 410 said:

Are you trying to jinx yourself?

The J word got Cancel Cultured so it doesn't apply 😝😝

[Joe Breaux]

Cancel Culture is CULTISM .. next  Harvest moon, they will all go into the desert and drink KOOLAID at midnight , waiting for the Mother Ship to arrive 

[T-boss 410]

You mean there really IS a mother ship???

[Travis]

maybe we should just tell them the next full moon is the harvest moon so it will happen quicker............

[Joe Breaux]

4 hours ago, T-boss 410 said:

You mean there really IS a mother ship???

yep.. MOTHER RUSSIA 

[Joe Breaux]

1 hour ago, Travis said:

maybe we should just tell them the next full moon is the harvest moon so it will happen quicker............

I ll chip in for the cyanide  Koolaide for them to party with 

[T-boss 410]

Don't be hatin'! They're just trying to make the world a better place for us all to live together (he says as he hugs a tree).

[Joe Breaux]

If they want to make America a better place, all they need to do...is leave .. I hear Iran is nice,, and very open minded and accepting of all those thing the Cancel Culture Warriors  love  

[T-boss 410]

As long as they take their rainbow- wearing sissies with them.  They could all have a party on the oasis, and the camel jockeys could be with something other than their camels. 

[Joe Breaux]

but wouldnt that make the camels lonely?

[T-boss 410]

Those poor canmels could use a break!