What do you do when

[Travis]

My + cable also tested with the same resistance,

not sure when that one is supposed to get here though,

guess ill order a ground cable too.

[Travis]

Holy cow....

$25 for that ground cable! heck it's shorter then the dang + cable! $21 at partzilla.

[T-boss 410]

Are those cables very elaborate? I considered making my own, but I don't have the correct gauge wire. 

[Travis]

here we go... Made in the US of A....

https://www.amazon.com/Spartan-Power-Negative-Connecting-Batteries/dp/B07HBNKVTR/ref=sr_1_11?dchild=1&keywords=ground%2Bcable&qid=1612400495&sr=8-11&th=1

 

[Travis]

  On 2/4/2021 at 1:03 AM, T-boss 410 said:

Are those cables very elaborate? I considered making my own, but I don't have the correct gauge wire. 

Expand  

the negative is just a a regular cable, coated with rubber.

 the + cable has a white wire made onto it that has a diode and 20 amp main fuse that goes to the keyswitch.

[Travis]

hold the phone,

 I forgot i have a short red wire that i had bought that's a Briggs part... technically it's a + cable, but a cable is a cable, it might reach to from the battery to the where the ground point is.

[T-boss 410]

Gotcha. Mine doesn't have that diode. Mine has a cable from the battery to the solenoid, and from the solenoid to the starter. There's also one from the battery to the wiring harness.

[Travis]

Okay, that cable i have on hand will work perfectly, ends are sealed too. i cut a strip of black heat shrink tube and put on it so i won't cross them up.

[T-boss 410]

Hope it works for you!

[kenfain]

  On 2/4/2021 at 1:17 AM, Travis said:

Okay, that cable i have on hand will work perfectly, ends are sealed too. i cut a strip of black heat shrink tube and put on it so i won't cross them up.

Expand  

They sell pre made cables at tractor supply. All different lengths. But marking the ground...that works too. Good luck!

[Travis]

  On 2/4/2021 at 1:24 AM, kenfain said:

They sell pre made cables at tractor supply. All different lengths. But marking the ground...that works too. Good luck!

Expand  

Really?! i've never seen any cables at my TSC, in Willis or Conroe... i'll have to look closer

[kenfain]

  On 2/4/2021 at 1:27 AM, Travis said:

Really?! i've never seen any cables at my TSC, in Willis or Conroe... i'll have to look closer

Expand  

They're on the wall by the batteries. Along with the battery accessory stuff. They're generic lengths, sold by inches. So know how long you need it to be. 

[Travis]

+Positive cable ain't gonna be here for 2 weeks....

Guess i'll head to TSC tomorrow and look, or order a + cable like i listed earlier. and put a ring terminal on that white wire.

[Travis]

just now, i took off the flywheel housing, so i can see the ring gear and starter gear, whenever the starter clicks, there is no sign of outward movement of the starter gear..

so it's something internally in the starter i think...but what?

also read something interesting,  bad cables  can (of course deliver lower amperage) and that can burn out solenoids.....

 

[kenfain]

Since you're replacing the cables, and you have a known good solenoid. That's a good starting point for finding your problem. You should be seeing that new multimeter soon. New parts, and a few quick tests, should start getting some answers. 

Unfortunately I have no idea what is considered normal amp draw for yours, (or mine either). 

You should be able to get that same information from the internet, or maybe the manufacturer, hopefully on their website. 

[T-boss 410]

I guess that if the starter wasn't being supplied with enough current, that it wouldn't kick the gear out to engage the flywheel, but it would be enough to spin the motor.  But unfortunately, these days you just can't trust that parts will function properly for a long period of time. 

If you remove the starter and hook it up to a known good battery, does it kick the gear out?

[Travis]

  On 2/4/2021 at 8:23 PM, T-boss 410 said:

I guess that if the starter wasn't being supplied with enough current, that it wouldn't kick the gear out to engage the flywheel, but it would be enough to spin the motor.  But unfortunately, these days you just can't trust that parts will function properly for a long period of time. 

If you remove the starter and hook it up to a known good battery, does it kick the gear out?

Expand  

 

I'm not pulling that starter off until i get the new cable.

I'm almost ready to screw it and live with it.

[T-boss 410]

Just a thought. 

[Travis]

  On 2/4/2021 at 8:21 PM, kenfain said:

Since you're replacing the cables, and you have a known good solenoid. That's a good starting point for finding your problem. You should be seeing that new multimeter soon. New parts, and a few quick tests, should start getting some answers. 

Unfortunately I have no idea what is considered normal amp draw for yours, (or mine either). 

You should be able to get that same information from the internet, or maybe the manufacturer, hopefully on their website. 

Expand  

me either, all i know kawasaki  recommends (stock) a 235CCA battery, and i have a 270 in it.

[Travis]

here's something to chew on! Lol

wouldn't start earlier, clicked about 40 times.. this time, I went from the + on the solenoid and unplugged where the trigger wire goes, and shorted from the big + to trigger tab, and it fired right up.

 That big + has more amps than that little wire...

Sooo is for some reason, i am not getting enough amperage through the trigger to retract the solenoid completely, SOMETIMES? Or is it in the starter causing it need to more amperage to retract the solenoid SOMETIMES.?

[Travis]

Okay, i put the spare solenoid on, (of course i had to remove the starter to do that ) so while the starter was on the bench, i hooked up a good battery to it. and it spun up every time HOWEVER, the way i'm triggering the solenoid is jumping from the + (alot of amps) to the trigger tab with a 18 gauge wire.

Now, i did clean up the starter  gear and clutch and WD 40'd it, and that seemed to help a little bit, it turned it over a few times before it started clicking again, back on the mule.

Of course i've read about the starter needing shimmed and what not, but i highly doubt that it's the case as the starter worked great  for a month and a half before any problems occured.

Teeth were in good shape also.

 

 

[Travis]

Okay, here's what's happening.

i removed the flywheel housing again, and whenever the starter clicks, it only moves, maybe a 1/8" of an inch?  It isn't hitting the flywheel and stopping, it's just bare moving.

i'll try to record a video.

[T-boss 410]

Is the cable the same gauge from the battery to the starter? Sounds like something is dropping the amps from the battery to the solenoid. I don't understand how your starter works, since it doesn't have a bendix to push the gear out to contact the flywheel. But if it was working properly after installing the new one, I would have to believe that it was something internal with the starter. 

[Travis]

  On 2/5/2021 at 12:57 AM, T-boss 410 said:

Is the cable the same gauge from the battery to the starter? Sounds like something is dropping the amps from the battery to the solenoid. I don't understand how your starter works, since it doesn't have a bendix to push the gear out to contact the flywheel. But if it was working properly after installing the new one, I would have to believe that it was something internal with the starter. 

Expand  

scrap what i said in the last post.

[Travis]

Okay, i was able to contort my body into a position where i could see the flywheel gear much better. and used the weight of a pair of vice grips to hold the key in START. i then got a screwdriver and moved the flywheel a hair, and when i say HAIR, i mean a HAIR.. and the starter kicked over and engaged and spun the engine.

Now 2 things, Is it a issue with the flywheel teeth,

Or:

The clutch on the starter gear is designed to spin freely 1 way, and spin the motor the way that allows the gear to move independently of the shaft so it can mesh with the teeth on the flywheel, then it spins the engine over. SO I DON'T FREAKING KNOW

 

OR is the starter not getting enough amperage to overcome that friction???

 

[Travis]

Another thing,  from the factory the starter comes with 2 holes in it on the bottom. One hole is plugged. The other is not. I just wonder if fine dust from riding is getting in there and over a period of starts wears on the support shaft bushing surfaces and wears them to the point where the shaft isn't aligned with the ring gear on the fly wheel.

[T-boss 410]

Is there play in the starter shaft? Or did the clutch for the flywheel wear enough to throw the flywheel out of alignment enough to jamb the starter gear and prevent it from contacting the flywheel?

[Travis]

I'll have to pull the starter and check for how much slack is in it.

[Travis]

  On 2/5/2021 at 12:57 AM, T-boss 410 said:

Is the cable the same gauge from the battery to the starter? Sounds like something is dropping the amps from the battery to the solenoid. I don't understand how your starter works, since it doesn't have a bendix to push the gear out to contact the flywheel. But if it was working properly after installing the new one, I would have to believe that it was something internal with the starter. 

Expand  

Solenoid shift. there is a piece that the solenoid clips to, that piece is attached to the starter gear, when the solenoid retracts, that causes the bottom of the piece to move the opposite direction pushing the starter gear outwards.

[T-boss 410]

Don't forget to check the flywheel also, if you can. I would think that, with the hours on it and the starter being new, that the flywheel would be the suspect this time.