4 WHEEL DRIVE ACTUATOR

[Gumball]

HELP!

My Trooper is locked in the 4 wheel drive mode. It still runs OK but I can't put it in 2 wheel drive. I disassembled the actuator and it doesn't make sense to me how it works. It has a small motor with a gear output but I haven't found what the motor drives??? If it had a matching gear it's nowhere to be found. What am I missing??

Gumball

[JGS UTVS]

GUMBALL

The actuator pushes a pin in and out to engage and disengage the four wheel drive.Make sure the gear is not stripped or the piece that pushes on the pin.is not broke.

[Gumball]

Thank you JGS,

The part that is puzzling is there isn't anything that fits against the small gear. The little motor is like something you would find in a toy car. Ah, the mystery deepens.

I'll look again to see where a pin could be.

Gumball

[ksimpsy]

pull the bigger looking top gray pice out and you will see the pin.

[brostar]

Gumball, the small motor drives the small gearing through two cogs that turns the final gear inside the black cylinder casing that drives the small locking pin that comes out directly underneath the black cylinder on the out side of the casing. See photo, it comes out of the blue hole. Photos are here http://community.webshots.com/album/570318331EsRryW . What happens when it fails is the shaft that goes though the black plastic cylinder lifts up and the final gear cog that engages it, just spins. The fix is as simple as pushing it back in. The probably cause is switching from 2 to 4wd on the fly pushing it up and out. Gumball, I've just remembered this locker is out of a Commando and will check if it is the same unit but I think so.

I hope this helps, Mike.

[JGS UTVS]

Gumball

The metal pin is in that little hole in the differential The small hole on the actuator with the o ring on it slides into the diff and the pin slides into the hole on the actuator.When you put it into the two wheel drive mode the actuator turns pushing on the pin holding the sleeve away from engaging into four wheel drive.Since you are stuck in four wheel drive you have to make sure there is power to the actuator and you can hear the motor.If you can hear the motor run make sure the plastic rod is not broke in the actuator.

[brostar]

Yep, it's the same unit and about 10 times easier to work on compared to the Commando.

Cheers Mike.

[brostar]

JGS UTVS, you are right about the possibility of it being stripped or even no power to the unit either way between us we should have it covered. Lets us know how you get on Gumball.

Cheers Mike

[Gumball]

Ho Ho it's off to Joyner I go! Thanks for all the good information. The pictures told the story. The guy that had the car before me must have had a problem. He took everything out of the actuator case except the little motor.

When I was at Joyner a couple days ago they told me they are looking at changing this arrangement to get rid of the electrical problems they must have had. I'll call Monday and see about getting a new unit. I hope I don't have to come out of retirement to afford it.

Thanks again for all your help. This is the finest forum I've ever been on. You people are AWESOME!

Gumball

[Guest Lenny]

As far as I'm concerned, the four wheel drive actuator is a peice of junk. If you completely remove it, your

Trooper wil default to four wheel drive. The internal spring in the diff holds it there. the actuator pushes against the spring to disengage the four wheel drive. My actuator started acting up and my dealer got it working again. That lasted about 2 minutes after I got it home. So, I took the actuator off to see what the problem was. On the circuit board, there is a tiny limit switch at each end of the stroke. When the actuator actuates, there is a tooth pick size plastic finger that moves from one limit switch to the other. This little plastic finger is about as worthless as it can get. It flexes way to easy so if it isn't just right it don't work. I palyed with mine and I played with it. Finally I gave up and made a manual device to push the pin in or let it come out. Now It works always and it won't quit on me unexpectedly. The pics show what I did. The dash shot shows the new actuator lever on the dash.

Lenny

[Gumball]

Thanks Lenny,

It looks like you are on top of the Trooper problems. If it's OK with you I'm going to pass your information on to the engineer at Joyner that's working on upgrades. He and I talked about the actuator problem and he's looking into a mechanical setup to get rid of the electrical unit.

You can reach me on [email protected] if you'd like to avoid having to post messages on the board.

I'm really impressed with the group and how helpful they have been.

As an aside, what kind of a GPS are you using? I'm thinking of getting a Lowrance Globalmap 840C. My tired eyes have trouble reading the small screens.

Gumball

[brostar]

Gumball where I live we have something like more than a 1000 kms of seashore in a 100 km radius. That works by living on a long thin peninsular on the Pacific coast with a large number of off shore islands, three major harbours and a major Peninsular off shore from us plus the Tasman sea coast only 30 minutes drive so the end result is , every one goes fishing. The reason I'm telling you this is there is an old saying that goes like this, Fish at your feet son. The meaning is you can spend 45 minutes going out on your boat to that island over there and catch a feed but you can also go just out to the 10 metre mark, catch the same amount of fish and do so in 1/10th the time & effort. That makes that saying very wise and it's fair to say we have some very wise men on this forum. Len's fix for the actuator is not only a better design, it would be easier to operate, cheeper, more sturdier and it just makes sense. He's not tiring to re-invent the wheel just applying common sense. Please do pass on this idea to the engineer at T.J's, hopefully he will take it on board.

Cheers Mike.

[Guest Lenny]

As an aside, what kind of a GPS are you using? I'm thinking of getting a Lowrance Globalmap 840C. My tired eyes have trouble reading the small screens.

Gumball

I have the Lowrance 540c. Bought it off Ebay for around $450. Has a 5" screen which is ultra bright and is easy to see in direct sunlight screen. The other main reason I like it is that it is water proof. Comes with a nice bracket that allows easy removal when leaving the Trooper alone. I really don't want someone else to find their way through life with my GPS. The screen is the right size for the Trooper IMHO. I'm real happy with it.

Thanks for the comments. Joyner is more then welcome to use my idea. Another way would be to use a simple rocker arm on a pivot in the middle with a torsion spring to hold it in the default 4 wheel drive position when the dash lever was nt pulled. One end of the lever would push the pin in and the other end would be hooked to the pull cable, with a spring in between the two, comming from the lever on the dash. The dash lever is a simple over center cam lock with a tension spring so it is held either in the engaged or not engaged position. I use the same cam over lever on mine and I do the same thing here but in a different way.

Lenny

[ksimpsy]

Hey Lenny what did you do for an oil seal in the diff around the the engagement pin?

[Guest Lenny]

Hey Lenny what did you do for an oil seal in the diff around the the engagement pin?

I used the back plastic panel of the original electric actuator unit. It has the seal for both the shaft and the hole going in. I kept the mount tabs and the pocket that reaches back to the pin and the little sleeve that pushes into the dif and holds the seals. My other assembly layes over this including the mount tabs. In other words it sort of sandwiches to it. When I activate the 4wd buy pulling the cable it pulls on the shaft which holds the pin pushing arm and withdraws it so the pin can come out on its own. It's sprung loaded inside the dif. When I release the pull on the cable, the spring ( used from the original electric assembly ) pushes from it's stationary end which is the end to the rear while also pushing the pin pushing arm to push the pin in. The spring allows the pin to get pushed in when it's ready and lined up inside, thus not forcing it.

Lenny

[rocmoc]

Has anyone else had this problem? Mine has worked perfectly but I never engage or disengage while moving. IMHO, some of the problems with the lockers & 4wd has come from engaging & disengaging while moving. I always come to a complete stop!

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[Guest Lenny]

The way it works, it doesn't matter if your moving or not. The electrical engager only moves a shuttle which compresses a spring or uncompresses it. The spring when compressed pushes the pin in which slides a collar off of one of two gears so they can turn independenbtly. The spring is used so the system can find a relaxed state before it engages or disengages independent of when you activate the 4wd switch. The reason they don't want it engaged or disengaged while moving is that if its engaged, an you try to disengage it, the collar could get into a position that is only partually engaged before releasing all the way. If there was a pull on the driveline at hat time, it could easily damage either the collar or gears. The same if you try to engage the 4wd while moving.

Lenny

[rocmoc]

Thanks Lenny for the info. BUT I will continue on the basis if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Still going to stop and let all those little square Chinese gears & shafts align up before I put stress on my Trooper. So far I have had minimal failures and I have not held back on the play with my Trooper except jumping. I really do appreciate your insight on what the parts look/are like. I also double clutch the thing at times, really old school. LOL!

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[Guest Lenny]

rocmoc, Apperciate your input too. I also always come to a complete stop before engageing/ disengageing. I leaarnd when I was young and thought I could push everything that all it did was break stuff. I don't double clutch but the Trooper does want to be shifted very deliberity or it is easy to miss a shift.

Lenny

[rocmoc]

Agree about the shifting. Royal Purple in the Trans helped a little.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

[ksimpsy]

Sounds good lenny if mine screws up again i think that's what i will be doing. The reason my actuator failed is because it got water in it because they stripped out the holes on the cover so it didn't seal. so when i put it into 2wd the limit switch didn't stop the carrier and ended up burning a spot off of one of the gears. i fixed it temporarily by fileing out the spot and putting "mighty Putty" in the hole then i ran the gear over it to make teeth and it worked until i got my new actuator now i have it as a backup. I used lots of silicone on the new cap to prevent this and haven't had a problem since.

I usually shift into/out of 4wd on the fly i just make sure there is no torque on the drive line and let off a bit on the gas to make sure it goes in fine. I just had the diff apart and looked at those lock collars (4wd and diff lock) and neither of them had even a nick on them. but i do believe i am missing a gear from the crown gear. it has been making a crunch noise and a bit of a skip from the beginning but it started getting worse lately.

[Guest Lenny]

I use to shift my 95 dodge diesel in and out of 4wd when there wasn't any torque on anything. Did it for years 358,000 miles when sold it. The last and zillionith time I did it, I took out the transfer cast. I'll never do it again. You mignt want to at least push in the clutch when doing it. The electronic engager is awfull complex for such a simple task. Gosh it even has a complex little circuit board in it.

Good luck and keep having fun.

Lenny

[brostar]

The photos I posted was from a C2 that failed or at least popped out the last gear, was after it was switched from 2 to 4wd on the fly. Not sure if the clutch was in as it was a test drive by a customer, but what you will notice if this happens to you is the small engine that drives it will stay on. Make sure you dis-connect the wires at the connection near the unit to prevent it from burning out if you intend to keep on driving or it's just a matter of unscrewing the lid and pushing the offending gear back into place.

That's just incase it ever happens to you.

Cheers Mike.

[Gumball]

OUCH!!!

Called Joyner today. The actuator looks like plastic but it must be gold. They want $190.00 (US). Needless to say I have a 4 wheel drive Trooper. I did talk to the engineer to see how high on his list the mechanical actuator is. He said it's moving up rapidly.

Maybe Lenny will start making them and I'll get one from him.

Gumball

[JGS UTVS]

Gumball

You can contact me buy phone or e-mail. go to dealer locator on joyner website under state of pa. contact JGS ATVS I might be able to help you out.

[Gumball]

A hardy thank you to JG's UTV. He was able to get me an actuator and told me what it took to install it. He mailed it and it got to me fast. With his input I installed it with no hassle.

The only thing that was a bit surprising is there isn't a bracket on my Trooper for the bolt under the actuator. I made sure the other two were tight and I don't see the missing bolt as a problem.

Thanks again for every ones help.

Gumball

[brostar]

JGS UTVS Only three posts and your already a valuable member of utv boards. Nice, good on ya mate.

Cheers Mike

[silverbullet]

I used the back plastic panel of the original electric actuator unit. It has the seal for both the shaft and the hole going in. I kept the mount tabs and the pocket that reaches back to the pin and the little sleeve that pushes into the dif and holds the seals. My other assembly layes over this including the mount tabs. In other words it sort of sandwiches to it. When I activate the 4wd buy pulling the cable it pulls on the shaft which holds the pin pushing arm and withdraws it so the pin can come out on its own. It's sprung loaded inside the dif. When I release the pull on the cable, the spring ( used from the original electric assembly ) pushes from it's stationary end which is the end to the rear while also pushing the pin pushing arm to push the pin in. The spring allows the pin to get pushed in when it's ready and lined up inside, thus not forcing it.

Lenny

GOOD IDEA.

SILVERBULLET

[TahoeGuy]

Not sure if you guys care if I talk on here with you guys too....

Just wanted to let you all know that Joyner has done away with the electronic actuators. I guess all the problems with actuators finally got them to get rid of them. New units dealers are now getting all have the new feature. You now change from 2x4 to 4x4 using a lever just like the front and rear lockers, so intead of the electronics its now run using a cable. So no more problems yeah! So next time your actuator goes out, try calling Joyner and asking how much they want for the new setup, it cant be much more than those damn actuators.

[4x4x454]

Not sure if you guys care if I talk on here with you guys too....

Just wanted to let you all know that Joyner has done away with the electronic actuators. I guess all the problems with actuators finally got them to get rid of them. New units dealers are now getting all have the new feature. You now change from 2x4 to 4x4 using a lever just like the front and rear lockers, so intead of the electronics its now run using a cable. So no more problems yeah! So next time your actuator goes out, try calling Joyner and asking how much they want for the new setup, it cant be much more than those damn actuators.

Glad to have you here. I know you have or had another site but this has to be the most helpful place for Joyner owners. At least Trooper owners. A lot of good scratch that great people and knowledge here. Again glad to have you.