Hisun Sector e1 Battery replacement: any tips?

[BuggyBoy]

Well i took the dive and got x4 Allion GC2's. 
Very easy installation - virtually a battery swap as they are the same size. Only thing i had to do was make a couple of new cables, but that was easy enough.

As someone else earlier in the thread said - night and day from the Discover batteries. So much weight removed the E1 site higher and the steering is now very easy.

Max power is now available and it shoots up steep hills - something the Discover batteries never really did. Combo of weight removal and more power i think. All thats left is to update the Delta charger to a lithium profile, but so far, worth the $5k (Aus Dollars). 
If you are thinking of doing it, don't hesitate!
 

[mark walkom]

bloody hell, 5K for that is a bit much for me! 🤣

nice work though, glad to hear they slot in well and are making a big difference. I'd be interested to see what the range/use is like now

[Joe Breaux]

On 6/9/2022 at 12:27 PM, didgeridoo said:

Since I created this post, I have installed the new Lithium batteries into my Hisun Sector E1. It was really not too complex. Here's what I did:

Remove the seat. Remove the panel in front of the batteries (screws on top, and bottom, then loosened the outside panels to make it easier to remove). Then remove the plastic panel over the top of the batteries (you may not have to, but this gave me more room to work). I then removed the battery leads from the 6V batteries. For belt and suspender points, I wrapped the end of the battery leads as not to short anything out as I worked. The battery tie-downs were next and removed easily with a 17mm socket. The J hooks simply fell to the floor as the tie-down was removed (they are easy to put back in place). Finally, remove the batteries; it is easiest to remove the inboard batteries first, straight to the driver/passenger floorboard. The rearmost outboard battery was next, and it has to make a 90 degree turn to come out through the space vacated by the inboard batteries. Then the forward most outboard battery can come out easily. Remember, these batteries are heavy, so watch where your fingers, hands and feet are, as there may be sharp edges inside the battery compartment. Since the pack I got comes with a charger, I removed the onboard charger. Three bolts to remove from the charger from the frame, then pull the charge indicator light from the dashboard well. under the UTV, remove the plastic guard under the floorboard  (4 screws), and the wires from the charger go  through to the motor controller/battery harness.

Once the battery compartment was cleaned, it is time to install the new batteries. I wished I could have mounted them in the inboard battery tray, but the leads I had were not long enough to place the busbar where I wanted. I mounted the 4 batteries outboard, and made sure the connectors faced inward, with the battery indicator cable on the forward passenger side tray.  Since the EAGL batteries are shorter than the Discover batteries, I used a piece of 1/2 inch PVC pipe and a fender washer to take up some room from the battery tie-down to the J-hook. I then ran the battery indicator wire to the dash, using the tunnel under the floorboard. Ziptie or otherwise secure the cable, as the driveshaft is in the tunnel, too, and you wouldn't want the cable to rub on the spinning shaft. With a rotary cutting tool (Dremel), I made a hole for the battery indicator on the dash and connected the wire. Then, to connect the battery to the busbar, I made all the positive and negative connections for the 4 battery leads, the motor controller lead, and the charge lead (all positives together, and all negatives together). I secured all the leads with zipties, and finally make the battery connections. The EAGL batteries have disconnect switches that need to be turned on. They also have blue LED voltage indicators, which, unfortunately, I cannot read since they are too close to the edge. I checked that each pack was on, then finally, started to reassemble the seat/battery compartment. 

Turned on the "ignition", put it in gear, and it worked! The gauge in the dash showing amp draw works, but the battery voltage indicator is probably not calibrated for LiFe batteries. With the big battery dot com kit, the lighted battery indicator should show the pack status.

I am still testing the battery packs, but I am happy so far. They allow me to keep speed up the hills (20MPH vs 10 or 12MPH). I haven't done a range test yet, but since the whole cart is nearly 350 pounds lighter, Im guessing that range will be improved over the old batteries. If I do need more range, I can install up to 3 more EAGL batteries before I have to relocate the busbar to add the 4th.

The stock DeltaQ IC1200 charger on the Hisun is really good; waterproof and high-wattage capable, and I wish I could have reused it. There is a way to update the charger to change the charge profile from Lead-acid to Lithium batteries, but there is not (yet) a profile for the EAGL LiFe battery, so I am using the charger purchased from big battery dot com.  Perhaps DeltaQ will make a profile in the future...

Remember to wear safety equipment, (gloves, goggles, etc) as you are dealing with batteries. While the Discover batteries are sealed, they are also vented, and precautions should be made in case some acid may have made its way out. Watch for sharp edges in the compartments. Make sure you don't cause any electrical shorts by bridging any positive and negatives as you are wrenching and ratcheting. Secure all wires to prevent chafing, rubbing, or other wear against vibration or moving parts.

Have fun, and good luck if you attempt a similar upgrade to Lithium packs on your Hisun EV!

 

Sounds like a lot of work compared to just filling mine with premium

[GNFO]

48 minutes ago, Joe Breaux said:

Sounds like a lot of work compared to just filling mine with premium

It's gotten simpler since that first post now that GC2 form factor batteries are available. But to your comment, this is a one-time thing and is frankly because HiSun went with older technology batteries when it came out.

Now to "fill up" I just plug in to an outlet at the end of the day. No going to the station to fill up cans of gas, no fumes, no noise, no oil changes, no maintenance issues with all the additional little parts that keep a combustion engine going and tuned up, no worry that my UTV sat too long between uses and might not start or the gas needs stabilizer. I can even run electric loads like the light bars I installed without leaving an engine running and worrying about the little 12v battery. I've even considered adding a 2000W 48v dc to ac inverter to run power tools.

[Joe Breaux]

2 hours ago, GNFO said:

It's gotten simpler since that first post now that GC2 form factor batteries are available. But to your comment, this is a one-time thing and is frankly because HiSun went with older technology batteries when it came out.

Now to "fill up" I just plug in to an outlet at the end of the day. No going to the station to fill up cans of gas, no fumes, no noise, no oil changes, no maintenance issues with all the additional little parts that keep a combustion engine going and tuned up, no worry that my UTV sat too long between uses and might not start or the gas needs stabilizer. I can even run electric loads like the light bars I installed without leaving an engine running and worrying about the little 12v battery. I've even considered adding a 2000W 48v dc to ac inverter to run power tools.

Problem with  that is theres no where to plug  in on cypress trees  where we ride trails   for  days sometimes.. I can go about 160 miles on a tank of gas .. and your  batteries  dont last forever .. To each his own tho..good  luck in the future

[GNFO]

1 hour ago, Joe Breaux said:

Problem with  that is theres no where to plug  in on cypress trees  where we ride trails   for  days sometimes.. I can go about 160 miles on a tank of gas .. and your  batteries  dont last forever .. To each his own tho..good  luck in the future

I almost wrote that it depends on the use but I didn't want to make my comment too long. I can certainly see the need for a gas engine if you're traveling a long ways and away from civilization for days. I suppose portable solar panels and battery storage would work if you're traveling to a single campsite and are staying there for a while, but I'm not such a purist that I think that would be practical in most cases.

But for local work use around a property/ranch/farm, electric is ideal.

[BuggyBoy]

Ok, so after the new LifePo4's are in, the one wild card i though might crop up, has.

Before was dumb batteries with a smart buggy system. Now its smart batteries 'talking' to a smart buggy. If i have the new batts at 100%, when we leave our property we have a very steep hill for 100m's. The regen is trying to feed the full batts, but the batteries BMS is obviously just rejecting the charge as full, and throwing something at the buggy system, which the means the buggy throws up an error message  (5### - forgot to make a note of it). 

All power is lost, but easy to reset by simply turning ignition off/on again at bottom of hill. So questions are: 

• Has anyone experienced this?
• If so - what have you done to fix it (we are simply charging to 95% instead of 100%) 
• Anyone know how to disable the regen? We don't need it anyway.
  
  Cheers.

[BuggyBoy]

12 hours ago, Joe Breaux said:

Sounds like a lot of work compared to just filling mine with premium

We have no fuel near us, so EV only option. Now a hybrid buggy would be good, best of both worlds until batt tech doubles in capacity...

[GNFO]

11 hours ago, BuggyBoy said:

Ok, so after the new LifePo4's are in, the one wild card i though might crop up, has.

Before was dumb batteries with a smart buggy system. Now its smart batteries 'talking' to a smart buggy. If i have the new batts at 100%, when we leave our property we have a very steep hill for 100m's. The regen is trying to feed the full batts, but the batteries BMS is obviously just rejecting the charge as full, and throwing something at the buggy system, which the means the buggy throws up an error message  (5### - forgot to make a note of it). 

All power is lost, but easy to reset by simply turning ignition off/on again at bottom of hill. So questions are: 

• Has anyone experienced this?
• If so - what have you done to fix it (we are simply charging to 95% instead of 100%) 
• Anyone know how to disable the regen? We don't need it anyway.
  
  Cheers.

Since it's unique to just the particular situation of starting the day at the top of a hill with a full charge, couldn't you put it in neutral and just use the brakes until you get to level ground?  After that regen won't matter.

That's essentially what EV cars do if they start with 100% batteries, it's just that the computer interface with the BMS is better so it's automatic. Changing the regen of the UTV would probably take a motor controller software change.

[Joe Breaux]

18 hours ago, BuggyBoy said:

We have no fuel near us, so EV only option. Now a hybrid buggy would be good, best of both worlds until batt tech doubles in capacity...

I like the hybrid idea but EV IS NOT PRACTICAL. Here, and solar don't charge in the rain..Dino fuel is king..

[Jarheadtx]

On 5/16/2024 at 2:10 PM, Jamie Wilson said:

Wanted to give my info here so its documented and others know. I have had issues since day one with my Discover batteries on my Sector E1. The issue was the dealer i purchased it from was 3 hours away and both them and Hisun said i would need to bring it back to figure it out. after 3 years almost I was so tired of the low voltage errors "45C3" that i decided to replace the batteries. It was so much money and so many different stories/opinions I wasn't sure what direction to go. Last min i found Litime.com they had 51.2v 30Ah Lithium batteries. I reached out and they said they would be a direct replacement for the Discover batteries. So I ordered them. They emailed me back and as I found on the interwebs - contradicting information they said "These will not work, please deny the shipment or use for another project. The HP of your UTV is too much". Well I didn't listen and i accepted the shipment. Yesterday i took out my 8 Discover and replaced them with 4 51.2v 30Ah LiTime batteries. I installed them in parallel, I did a algorithm update on the Delta iQ 1200 using profile 233 (Closest settings to the LiTime Battery). and BOOM! it worked, and it worked like NEVER before! its so fast, two grown adults up the hill and hardly any drop, but best part at 50% charge it was showing ZERO errors. I would estimate the cart is about 2" taller now too b/c of the battery weight removed. I will update in a few weeks how they are doing. but as of now i would totally recommend and they were like $499 a battery b/c they have a sale currently taking 100 off each battery. 

Did you need to buy anything else or was this just a battery replacement and reprogram of the Delta iQ? Did the current 'charger/plug' work? Any other changes or purchases required?

[BuggyBoy]

1 hour ago, Jarheadtx said:

Did you need to buy anything else or was this just a battery replacement and reprogram of the Delta iQ? Did the current 'charger/plug' work? Any other changes or purchases required?

Can’t speak for others but the Allion batts were straight swap, everything worked. Had to make a couple of longer leads, and since changed DeltaQ to Lithium profile, but essentially a drop-in system. About three hours all up. 
Amazing performance now and getting 400a draw on dash meter when up very steep hill with four people in, so finally using the systems full potential. Very happy. 

[GNFO]

14 hours ago, BuggyBoy said:

Can’t speak for others but the Allion batts were straight swap, everything worked. Had to make a couple of longer leads, and since changed DeltaQ to Lithium profile, but essentially a drop-in system. About three hours all up. 
Amazing performance now and getting 400a draw on dash meter when up very steep hill with four people in, so finally using the systems full potential. Very happy. 

Out of curiosity, those batteries state a max continuous of 60A each and 100A for 10 seconds, so per just the specs you should be seeing 240A continuous and 400A for 10 sec. Are you actually getting better than that?

Also, how are you fitting 4 people in that thing? 🙂

[BuggyBoy]

3 minutes ago, GNFO said:

Out of curiosity, those batteries state a max continuous of 60A each and 100A for 10 seconds, so per just the specs you should be seeing 240A continuous and 400A for 10 sec. Are you actually getting better than that?

Also, how are you fitting 4 people in that thing? 🙂

No, that’s what I’m getting - but original Discover batts never even got to 400a.

2 kids, 2 adults…it’s a squeeze but it’s only for about 5 mins from water to top of island we live on. 

[mark walkom]

@BuggyBoy it'd be good to hear about the range when you get a bit of annecdata!

[BuggyBoy]

20 minutes ago, mark walkom said:

@BuggyBoy it'd be good to hear about the range when you get a bit of annecdata!

Might be a while - we have a short drive up a very steep hill, doesn’t do much else apart from that. All I can tell you is it uses 5% of battery to do that round trip of 1k - using that logic range would be 20k’s, but it would obviously be using more to pull a family and shopping up the hill than one person going down the hill, even with regen. 
I’ve got a 3k flat-ish circuit where we live, might try that.

Just fitted the Allion battery gauge, so can finally see the proper state of batt charge and amps being pulled.  

[BuggyBoy]

5 hours ago, mark walkom said:

@BuggyBoy it'd be good to hear about the range when you get a bit of annecdata!

So did 4km and battery went from 98% to 85%....

[mark walkom]

45 minutes ago, BuggyBoy said:

So did 4km and battery went from 98% to 85%....

so about 30km range? (unless my math sucks)

[BuggyBoy]

1 minute ago, mark walkom said:

so about 30km range? (unless my math sucks)

Yeah about right. But remember I can double the capacity from the four batts I have if I needed more, can fit another four in the empty slots. I’m at minimum batts. 

[mark walkom]

you've got 4 that are all 48v x 30ah yeah, doesn't that mean you get 120ah of capacity if they are in parallel? or am I missing something....

[Jarheadtx]

On 8/1/2024 at 11:26 AM, ScottKN said:

Hisun Sector E1 Discovery to Lithium Conversion.

So I went ahead and did the conversion using the LiTime 4-pack 48V 30Ah GC2 which I ordered on Amazon Prime Day for $1840 ($460/battery).  Also bought the LiTime 58.4V 18A ($200) Lithium Battery Charge and “Superboni” 7pc set #2 Awg HD Golf Cart Battery Club Car 48 Wire Kit ($56).  

I utilized the LiTime charger to activate the Bluetooth and charge each battery to full.  Then, connected them all in parallel and allowed them to balance both internal cells of each battery and between batteries which took several hours.

Removed all the old Discovery batteries which as stated before requires the removal of the front panel under the seating and is much easier if you disconnect the piston allowing the rear bed to open fully.

Placed the 4 new batteries in the most interior positions and had to utilize the braces from the exterior positions because the H-brace from the interior positions overlapped the battery terminals on the new batteries.  Be sure to position the batteries so the original connections can reach which for me was positioning the negative terminal on both posterior batteries towards the rear.  I connected the batteries in parallel for balanced but not perfectly balanced charging/discharge because it would require connections crossing over the controller sitting between the left and right battery positions.  Basically, the connections followed a “U” pattern around the controller.  I used this webpage to help wire the batteries:

https://www.solar-electric.com/lib/wind-sun/Iota_balanced_charging.pdf

I reprogrammed the Delta-Q charger to profile #233 charging to 56V as previously mentioned by Jaime since I read it is not recommended to utilize the max charge voltage which would have been profile #386 charging to 58.4V. https://support.delta-q.com/hc/en-us/articles/14188856858893-Choosing-an-Algorithm-for-a-Lithium-Battery

How to upload new profiles:

https://support.delta-q.com/hc/en-us/articles/360015622531-IC-Series-How-to-reprogram-reflash-or-upgrade-software-and-algorithms-via-USB

How to change charger profile:

https://support.delta-q.com/hc/en-us/articles/360016475772-Changing-Algorithms-on-IC-Series-Chargers 

Download profiles here:

https://support.delta-q.com/hc/en-us/articles/360015622311-Download-Algorithms-for-IC-Series-Chargers

Put everything back together and took it for a test run.  Everything appeared to function properly and certainly has more power.  I am using the battery Bluetooth with the LiTime App to monitor the batteries individually and the App has a feature that allows you to monitor all 4 batteries as a system.  I was able to see that the batteries did charge on the Delta Q charger as well.  It’s been less than a week, so I will update if anything changes, but overall for less than $2100 + tax/shipping(free since I have Amazon Prime), I’m very happy with the conversion.  Hope this helps anyone else thinking of making the leap to Lithium.

 

Great information. I did this install last night and it worked perfectly. Only thing I did different was to make my own battery cables to get the batteries configured in the best balanced configuration based upon the balanced PDF doc you provided. 

Edited October 25, 2024 by Jarheadtx
changed my message.

[BuggyBoy]

On 10/23/2024 at 4:59 PM, mark walkom said:

you've got 4 that are all 48v x 30ah yeah, doesn't that mean you get 120ah of capacity if they are in parallel? or am I missing something....

That’s correct. 

[Redfox]

How do you change DeltaQ to Lithium profile?

[EVSupport]

You will need the appropriate algorithm from the DeltaQ website (if they have one) you also need to have a way of stopping the charge by integration with the BMS. You can also get a  on/ off addition thats from DeltaQ and that enables the ic1200 to be externally controlled by using the temp sensor connections. Follow the IC1200 instructions . Its often really hard to do as the push switch is hard find and a pain to operate

 

[GNFO]

24 minutes ago, EVSupport said:

You will need the appropriate algorithm from the DeltaQ website (if they have one) you also need to have a way of stopping the charge by integration with the BMS. You can also get a  on/ off addition thats from DeltaQ and that enables the ic1200 to be externally controlled by using the temp sensor connections. Follow the IC1200 instructions . Its often really hard to do as the push switch is hard find and a pain to operate

 

I would also add that it depends on the replacement batteries you select. The company I used (ReLion) had a custom algorithm they made just for their batteries and sent me the file and instructions to flash the Delta Q charger. That was all I needed to make the charger work like before.

[EVSupport]

We use one that does not appear on the list. Came directly from DeltaQ, as we use a pack that finishes charge at around 63 volt. But the last 3 volts are at a much reduced charge rate, otherwise the charger would be over rated. But it works ok for us. It also has the issue that the charger will give a fault code(but still works) if it the pack is connected to he charger at over 60v. Voltage has to drop below 59v and then it resets. We also re profile the cutback table in the Sevcon to reflect a safe use of the pack, cutting back in a series of stages, and cutting back at the top end (deals with overcharge from regen when charged) .

 

[Redfox]

On 6/10/2024 at 7:24 AM, GNFO said:

Obviously a little hard to troubleshoot without seeing what you have set up, but regarding the additional wires, since each battery is in the 48V class it doesn't matter which battery you connect them to as long as you keep the + and - straight like before.  Just guessing, but if you don't have them connected right now you may not be getting power due to a controller power issue.  Other than that all I can offer is to recheck the connections and make sure the 12v battery is still good.

Is it necessary to change the 12v battery to lithium as well? Does the converter that converts 48v to 12v have to be changed out to?

[GNFO]

13 minutes ago, Redfox said:

Is it necessary to change the 12v battery to lithium as well? Does the converter that converts 48v to 12v have to be changed out to?

I didn't change either of those and everything works just fine. I'm still using the original 12v battery. 

[EVSupport]

!2v is continuously charged from the pack via the DC to DC, this is rated to a pack voltage of well over 80v . Its really worth turning off the pack (lead or Li ) and checking the 12v battery after about 10 mins. If its showing under 12v replace it. We are seeing a lot of the 12v battery dying at two to three years old. You dont see it normally as the DC to DC just tops it up., but that will flatten a pack in about two weeks.

[Redfox]

2 hours ago, EVSupport said:

!2v is continuously charged from the pack via the DC to DC, this is rated to a pack voltage of well over 80v . Its really worth turning off the pack (lead or Li ) and checking the 12v battery after about 10 mins. If its showing under 12v replace it. We are seeing a lot of the 12v battery dying at two to three years old. You dont see it normally as the DC to DC just tops it up., but that will flatten a pack in about two weeks.

Fantastic idea, thanks to all for sharing your feedback.