Hisun Sector e1 Battery replacement: any tips?

[Redfox]

On 10/24/2024 at 9:15 AM, Jarheadtx said:

Great information. I did this install last night and it worked perfectly. Only thing I did different was to make my own battery cables to get the batteries configured in the best balanced configuration based upon the balanced PDF doc you provided. 

Is it better to use LiTime 4-pack 48V 30Ah GC2 rather than 2 48V 100ah ?

[Redfox]

Do all the Hisun Sector E1s have the same DeltaQ IC1200 charger

[Redfox]

On 7/15/2024 at 5:36 AM, GNFO said:

That looks pretty good as long as you can make it fit.  Two of them would give you a lot of range.  Just make sure you get bigger cables to parallel them so they can handle to current.

I doubt the regen is capable of 400A. That's the max the motor can take as an input, so regen is going to be no more than ~60% of that max due to different losses in the system.  Probably even less than that, and I would guess the motor controller would limit the regen anyway because the old Discover batteries wouldn't have been able to handle it.

Is it better to use LiTime 4-pack 48V 30Ah GC2 rather than 2 48V 100ah ?

[GNFO]

On 2/22/2025 at 10:41 PM, Redfox said:

Is it better to use LiTime 4-pack 48V 30Ah GC2 rather than 2 48V 100ah ?

Depends on your situation.  Total price seems about the same, but as I read the specs, it seems like the two 100ah batteries will only give you ~200A continuous output, whereas the four 30ah batteries will together provide ~320A continuous output.  The four GC2 form factor batteries will also be easier to mount, since they are the same size as the existing Discover batteries (although you might have to alter the hold down plates if the tops have different protrusions).  The 100ah batteries would require some kind of modifications to make them fit.  I'm sure they will, but it will take some working out to do.  The only advantage to the two 100ah batteries is they will provide more total power storage, so if your biggest requirement is total range on relatively flat ground, go with them.  Otherwise I think the GC2s are the way to go despite the lower power storage.  If you decide you need more range, you can always add up to 4 additional batteries (for a cost of course).

[Redfox]

1 hour ago, GNFO said:

Depends on your situation.  Total price seems about the same, but as I read the specs, it seems like the two 100ah batteries will only give you ~200A continuous output, whereas the four 30ah batteries will together provide ~320A continuous output.  The four GC2 form factor batteries will also be easier to mount, since they are the same size as the existing Discover batteries (although you might have to alter the hold down plates if the tops have different protrusions).  The 100ah batteries would require some kind of modifications to make them fit.  I'm sure they will, but it will take some working out to do.  The only advantage to the two 100ah batteries is they will provide more total power storage, so if your biggest requirement is total range on relatively flat ground, go with them.  Otherwise I think the GC2s are the way to go despite the lower power storage.  If you decide you need more range, you can always add up to 4 additional batteries (for a cost of course).

Thank you for your advice! So 4 30ah would give a shorter run time but with more power?  

[GNFO]

56 minutes ago, Redfox said:

Thank you for your advice! So 4 30ah would give a shorter run time but with more power?  

That's the way I read the specs anyway.  It still seems like most batteries are only rated to 100A continuous even when they're bigger.  That's why I had to wait a long time until the ReLion GC2 form factor batteries came out, so that four of them in parallel let me get up to the 400A max of the UTV motor.  They were the only game in town at the time and were pretty expensive, but at least their BMS and the CANbus connections between them are first rate.  The 320A combined total of those LiTime batteries is pretty good in most cases and they are considerably less expensive.  And as I said, in both our cases we can add additional batteries if needed.  For me, I haven't ever run my batteries below 70%, but I only run on my property and I can plug in every night. 

[Redfox]

7 hours ago, GNFO said:

That's the way I read the specs anyway.  It still seems like most batteries are only rated to 100A continuous even when they're bigger.  That's why I had to wait a long time until the ReLion GC2 form factor batteries came out, so that four of them in parallel let me get up to the 400A max of the UTV motor.  They were the only game in town at the time and were pretty expensive, but at least their BMS and the CANbus connections between them are first rate.  The 320A combined total of those LiTime batteries is pretty good in most cases and they are considerably less expensive.  And as I said, in both our cases we can add additional batteries if needed.  For me, I haven't ever run my batteries below 70%, but I only run on my property and I can plug in every night. 

We just use the buggy to hunt off of, plant green fields, fill feeders and haul game out of the woods. I can plug in every night if needed. I really appreciate your advice. I do a lot of reading but my 73 year old brain doesn’t comprehend what I’m reading sometimes. Thanks again for the information. Have a blessed day brother 

[GNFO]

12 hours ago, Redfox said:

We just use the buggy to hunt off of, plant green fields, fill feeders and haul game out of the woods. I can plug in every night if needed. I really appreciate your advice. I do a lot of reading but my 73 year old brain doesn’t comprehend what I’m reading sometimes. Thanks again for the information. Have a blessed day brother 

No problem.  I don't know how far you go for the hunting, but if you look at the very first post I did in this thread I did do one longer trip beyond my property.  It was a spring day with two people, and the whole trip was in 4wd low over pretty bumpy and hilly terrain. I don't think I went over 5 mph due to the landscape.  I estimate I would have had a range of about 12 miles under those conditions with my four batteries/120ah.  Anything flatter and smoother should yield much better range, maybe even double or more if you can use medium or high 2wd.

The rest of my usage has been just on our wooded 5 acres - fairly decent slope and hauling full loads of firewood, sometimes also towing a 500lb log splitter at the same time. Never used more than 30% of my battery during the day.

I would recommend adding a digital readout gauge so you have a precise idea how much charge you have.  Maybe the Bluetooth part of those LiTime batteries can take the place of that, but having the readout is nice. 

[chris murray]

guys what is the 12 volt battery for on this unit and how does it charge? Im replacing the 8 6s with 4 lithiums but wondering about the 12 volt battery 

[EVSupport]

Its a std motorcycle battery. Markings of the one used will be on its side. but UK ones use a ntx20l-bx  make will vary the number. They are constantly topped up from the constantly running DC to DC converter. (even when ign off the DC to DC runs.

[GNFO]

1 hour ago, chris murray said:

guys what is the 12 volt battery for on this unit and how does it charge? Im replacing the 8 6s with 4 lithiums but wondering about the 12 volt battery 

Just like EV cars, there are 12v architecture devices (like lighting) and controllers.  The 12v battery provides the startup power to the controllers, and like EVSupport said it doesn't have to be very big since the main batteries top it up through a DC to DC converter.

[EVSupport]

2 hours ago, GNFO said:

Just like EV cars, there are 12v architecture devices (like lighting) and controllers.  The 12v battery provides the startup power to the controllers, and like EVSupport said it doesn't have to be very big since the main batteries top it up through a DC to DC converter.

The 12v provides the dash power and the std 12v stuff. The Main motor controller isnt supplied by 12v. Its fed with Pack voltage (48V) that pre charges the Sevcon Motor controller internal capacitors and then the Sevcon Turns on the main Contactor under the seat when the caps are charged. Hence the slight delay from turning the ign key (thats at a pack voltage) until you hear the clonk from the main contactor.

The Pack voltage that is seen by the Delta Q charger is also fed to the Sevcon during charge to disable the drive if charging. (green wire to the charger ).

[Redfox]

13 hours ago, GNFO said:

No problem.  I don't know how far you go for the hunting, but if you look at the very first post I did in this thread I did do one longer trip beyond my property.  It was a spring day with two people, and the whole trip was in 4wd low over pretty bumpy and hilly terrain. I don't think I went over 5 mph due to the landscape.  I estimate I would have had a range of about 12 miles under those conditions with my four batteries/120ah.  Anything flatter and smoother should yield much better range, maybe even double or more if you can use medium or high 2wd.

The rest of my usage has been just on our wooded 5 acres - fairly decent slope and hauling full loads of firewood, sometimes also towing a 500lb log splitter at the same time. Never used more than 30% of my battery during the day.

I would recommend adding a digital readout gauge so you have a precise idea how much charge you have.  Maybe the Bluetooth part of those LiTime batteries can take the place of that, but having the readout is nice. 

That’s better mileage than I thought it would be. I’m fixing to pull the trigger. Yesterday the 4 pack 48V  30ah Bluetooth  was $370.00 each.  Might not be the best but it’s certainly got to be better than what I have now. Thanks again for all your help 

[chris murray]

18 hours ago, EVSupport said:

The 12v provides the dash power and the std 12v stuff. The Main motor controller isnt supplied by 12v. Its fed with Pack voltage (48V) that pre charges the Sevcon Motor controller internal capacitors and then the Sevcon Turns on the main Contactor under the seat when the caps are charged. Hence the slight delay from turning the ign key (thats at a pack voltage) until you hear the clonk from the main contactor.

The Pack voltage that is seen by the Delta Q charger is also fed to the Sevcon during charge to disable the drive if charging. (green wire to the charger ).

well I need to swap the 8 6 volts over to 4 lithium's and swap the charger with the new (comes with the batteries) lithium charger. I guess I could re-program the charger in it but why not use the new one since its included.  The 12 volt battery that's in it seems fine and working so I dont think there is a need to change it at this time.

[Redfox]

On 12/27/2024 at 10:56 AM, EVSupport said:

You will need the appropriate algorithm from the DeltaQ website (if they have one) you also need to have a way of stopping the charge by integration with the BMS. You can also get a  on/ off addition thats from DeltaQ and that enables the ic1200 to be externally controlled by using the temp sensor connections. Follow the IC1200 instructions . Its often really hard to do as the push switch is hard find and a pain to operate

 

Do I need to buy LiTime lithium 48v 18a battery charger to charge each of the 4 batteries individually when I first receive them? Or could I just hook them in parallel and charge them with the correct algorithm in the DeltaQ charger

[ScottKN]

18 minutes ago, Redfox said:

Do I need to buy LiTime lithium 48v 18a battery charger to charge each of the 4 batteries individually when I first receive them? Or could I just hook them in parallel and charge them with the correct algorithm in the DeltaQ charger

I did buy the charger because they won’t turn on unless charged; however, I did not try to charge on the DeltaQ charger first to see if that would work.  I charged them all individually first and then connected them so they could balance.  FYI - my E1 worked well for a few months after the conversion, but then stopped working.  It’s currently at a Hisun certified dealer for the past month trying to figure out what is wrong.  I can update if they figure it out.

[chris murray]

On 2/25/2025 at 9:17 AM, GNFO said:

Just like EV cars, there are 12v architecture devices (like lighting) and controllers.  The 12v battery provides the startup power to the controllers, and like EVSupport said it doesn't have to be very big since the main batteries top it up through a DC to DC converter.

so what your saying is the 12 volt battery is just daisy chained off of 2 of the 6 volts installed on the cart? swapping over to lithium the batteries are 48 volt each using 4 of them to make up enough AH to make the carts run time. and/or that dc-dc converter u speak of is 48v-12 and running lithium connected exactly the same way wont make a difference to the 12 volt atv battery.

[GNFO]

12 hours ago, Redfox said:

Do I need to buy LiTime lithium 48v 18a battery charger to charge each of the 4 batteries individually when I first receive them? Or could I just hook them in parallel and charge them with the correct algorithm in the DeltaQ charger

Getting into the area of specific battery BMS here, so probably need to go off of info from someone who has used LiTime or even better if the manufacturer has provided that information on their website or answered your questions. Although my ReLion batteries came with a charger as part of the bundle, I haven't used it since it's an external golf cart connection charger and they had also provided me with a DeltaQ algorithm built specifically for their batteries. Also, I knew that the CANbus connections between the batteries specifically enabled communication between the individual battery BMSs for auto balancing. The batteries also came with over 50% charge on them.  

I don't see anything on the LiTime website description about balancing over Bluetooth, but I did see that they have a new version with CAN connections although it still doesn't mention balancing. I would specifically ask them the question.

[GNFO]

46 minutes ago, chris murray said:

so what your saying is the 12 volt battery is just daisy chained off of 2 of the 6 volts installed on the cart? swapping over to lithium the batteries are 48 volt each using 4 of them to make up enough AH to make the carts run time. and/or that dc-dc converter u speak of is 48v-12 and running lithium connected exactly the same way wont make a difference to the 12 volt atv battery.

EVSupport has a better idea of the specifics, but your second sentence is essentially correct. There is a 12V system and a 48V system.  How you get to 48V doesn't matter:  8 Discover lead batteries in series, two 24V batteries in series, or even just a single 48V lithium battery, it doesn't matter from just the standpoint of getting to 48V.  (Total storage and available continuous amps for maximum motor power is a different matter of course). That 48V is used for the motor controller and runs the DC-DC converter for topping off the 12V battery. As I mentioned, I didn't change my 12V battery when I converted, and that was two years ago.  I'll probably check the 12V battery health like EVSupport mentions, but everything has been working just fine so far.

[EVSupport]

2 hours ago, chris murray said:

so what your saying is the 12 volt battery is just daisy chained off of 2 of the 6 volts installed on the cart? swapping over to lithium the batteries are 48 volt each using 4 of them to make up enough AH to make the carts run time. and/or that dc-dc converter u speak of is 48v-12 and running lithium connected exactly the same way wont make a difference to the 12 volt atv battery.

The 12v is not a take off / partial pack bleed off. Its created from the 48V Pack by the DC to DC converter (Silver finned block under the center of the seat in front of the Sevcon motor controller. The DC to DC runs all the while . Ie not turned on by the ign key or the charger.

 

[GNFO]

13 hours ago, ScottKN said:

I did buy the charger because they won’t turn on unless charged; however, I did not try to charge on the DeltaQ charger first to see if that would work.  I charged them all individually first and then connected them so they could balance.  FYI - my E1 worked well for a few months after the conversion, but then stopped working.  It’s currently at a Hisun certified dealer for the past month trying to figure out what is wrong.  I can update if they figure it out.

That's too bad. For our benefit would you mind sharing the details? Doesn't seem like it would be the batteries and there aren't really a lot of components to check, so a month seems like a long time for the dealer to troubleshoot. 

[ScottKN]

17 minutes ago, GNFO said:

That's too bad. For our benefit would you mind sharing the details? Doesn't seem like it would be the batteries and there aren't really a lot of components to check, so a month seems like a long time for the dealer to troubleshoot. 

I will definitely report back once they figure it out.  Doubt it is the batteries.  I could hear the batteries trying to discharge, but no power to the motor.  They said they were able to get it working again temporarily, but then again stopped working.

[Redfox]

6 hours ago, GNFO said:

Getting into the area of specific battery BMS here, so probably need to go off of info from someone who has used LiTime or even better if the manufacturer has provided that information on their website or answered your questions. Although my ReLion batteries came with a charger as part of the bundle, I haven't used it since it's an external golf cart connection charger and they had also provided me with a DeltaQ algorithm built specifically for their batteries. Also, I knew that the CANbus connections between the batteries specifically enabled communication between the individual battery BMSs for auto balancing. The batteries also came with over 50% charge on them.  

I don't see anything on the LiTime website description about balancing over Bluetooth, but I did see that they have a new version with CAN connections although it still doesn't mention balancing. I would specifically ask them the question.

Thanks, I’ll contact them 

[EVSupport]

6 hours ago, ScottKN said:

I will definitely report back once they figure it out.  Doubt it is the batteries.  I could hear the batteries trying to discharge, but no power to the motor.  They said they were able to get it working again temporarily, but then again stopped working.

What are the fault codes. Either on the dash, flashes on the sevcon controller , or downladed from the sevcon.