Hisun Sector e1 Battery replacement: any tips?

[didgeridoo]

Hello, All!  I've decided to replace the traction batteries in my 2018 Sector E1 with a 48V Lithium set. They may be expensive, but I figure the Discovery Dry Cell are, too. I am not looking for the max driving range, as I have never received near the brochured range to begin with, but a good mix of charge/ get work done/ charge is what I am expecting.

I have settled on the 48V EAGL kit from bigbattery dot com. Each battery pack provides 30Ah. The kit ships with a charger, as well. The packs would be physically connected in parallel (using a busbar) to one another, maintaining the 48V voltage, but together would be able to provide the amp draw the buggy pulls when going up hill or towing a rake (rated 320 max continuous Amps). This is in comparison to the serial connection the eight 6V lead batteries. Each of the EAGL batteries looks to have its own BMS; am I correct in thinking I will have to use their included charger rather than (simply) changing the onboard charger to lithium mode? The chemistry of the pack is LiFe PO4, for what it's worth.  I haven't torn anything apart yet (to diagram), so  I am not sure how the dash will interpret the AMP draw, but the kit I am looking at includes a dash mounted charge indicator.

If anyone has completed a similar conversion, do you have any tips? Specifically, how did you remove the original batteries, and how did you secure the new ones? I am guessing that almost any change from the stock batteries would involve at least some modifications. Any tips would be appreciated, especially things I may have failed to consider. Thanks!

[didgeridoo]

Since I created this post, I have installed the new Lithium batteries into my Hisun Sector E1. It was really not too complex. Here's what I did:

Remove the seat. Remove the panel in front of the batteries (screws on top, and bottom, then loosened the outside panels to make it easier to remove). Then remove the plastic panel over the top of the batteries (you may not have to, but this gave me more room to work). I then removed the battery leads from the 6V batteries. For belt and suspender points, I wrapped the end of the battery leads as not to short anything out as I worked. The battery tie-downs were next and removed easily with a 17mm socket. The J hooks simply fell to the floor as the tie-down was removed (they are easy to put back in place). Finally, remove the batteries; it is easiest to remove the inboard batteries first, straight to the driver/passenger floorboard. The rearmost outboard battery was next, and it has to make a 90 degree turn to come out through the space vacated by the inboard batteries. Then the forward most outboard battery can come out easily. Remember, these batteries are heavy, so watch where your fingers, hands and feet are, as there may be sharp edges inside the battery compartment. Since the pack I got comes with a charger, I removed the onboard charger. Three bolts to remove from the charger from the frame, then pull the charge indicator light from the dashboard well. under the UTV, remove the plastic guard under the floorboard  (4 screws), and the wires from the charger go  through to the motor controller/battery harness.

Once the battery compartment was cleaned, it is time to install the new batteries. I wished I could have mounted them in the inboard battery tray, but the leads I had were not long enough to place the busbar where I wanted. I mounted the 4 batteries outboard, and made sure the connectors faced inward, with the battery indicator cable on the forward passenger side tray.  Since the EAGL batteries are shorter than the Discover batteries, I used a piece of 1/2 inch PVC pipe and a fender washer to take up some room from the battery tie-down to the J-hook. I then ran the battery indicator wire to the dash, using the tunnel under the floorboard. Ziptie or otherwise secure the cable, as the driveshaft is in the tunnel, too, and you wouldn't want the cable to rub on the spinning shaft. With a rotary cutting tool (Dremel), I made a hole for the battery indicator on the dash and connected the wire. Then, to connect the battery to the busbar, I made all the positive and negative connections for the 4 battery leads, the motor controller lead, and the charge lead (all positives together, and all negatives together). I secured all the leads with zipties, and finally make the battery connections. The EAGL batteries have disconnect switches that need to be turned on. They also have blue LED voltage indicators, which, unfortunately, I cannot read since they are too close to the edge. I checked that each pack was on, then finally, started to reassemble the seat/battery compartment. 

Turned on the "ignition", put it in gear, and it worked! The gauge in the dash showing amp draw works, but the battery voltage indicator is probably not calibrated for LiFe batteries. With the big battery dot com kit, the lighted battery indicator should show the pack status.

I am still testing the battery packs, but I am happy so far. They allow me to keep speed up the hills (20MPH vs 10 or 12MPH). I haven't done a range test yet, but since the whole cart is nearly 350 pounds lighter, Im guessing that range will be improved over the old batteries. If I do need more range, I can install up to 3 more EAGL batteries before I have to relocate the busbar to add the 4th.

The stock DeltaQ IC1200 charger on the Hisun is really good; waterproof and high-wattage capable, and I wish I could have reused it. There is a way to update the charger to change the charge profile from Lead-acid to Lithium batteries, but there is not (yet) a profile for the EAGL LiFe battery, so I am using the charger purchased from big battery dot com.  Perhaps DeltaQ will make a profile in the future...

Remember to wear safety equipment, (gloves, goggles, etc) as you are dealing with batteries. While the Discover batteries are sealed, they are also vented, and precautions should be made in case some acid may have made its way out. Watch for sharp edges in the compartments. Make sure you don't cause any electrical shorts by bridging any positive and negatives as you are wrenching and ratcheting. Secure all wires to prevent chafing, rubbing, or other wear against vibration or moving parts.

Have fun, and good luck if you attempt a similar upgrade to Lithium packs on your Hisun EV!

 

[BuggyBoy]

Hey - do you have any pics of the installation? There are two EAGL kits - which one did you buy he 120ah or 60ah?

How did you get to the 2080ah of the original batteries?

So are you still happy with it all - my main issue is getting up steep hills where we live, not range. The Discoveries are getting to two years old and are struggling with anything but a full charge and cold weather really saps them. 

Cheers.

[EVSupport]

Just a few points to guide people on lithium cells. The original pack  is not actually 2080ah, or rather it is but not in the correct way you express a pack ah . They have quoted that figure based on 8 x 260ah  so its quoting 2080ah on a 6 volt battery. Thats not how the pack ah is worked out.  The original is actually a 260ah pack at 48v .  But with  any lead you dont actually have access to all of that for storage purposes, as the voltage drops below a usable figure. If you took each battery down to 0v you may get the 260ah , but kill it in the process. Whats important with lead is having adequate ah to supply the discharge rate  the motor/ control requires. Thats where Lithium have the edge.   So with Lithium (any version) you can have a lower ah of the pack but you do need to ensure you have enough to easily deliver the high discharges needed. If you have a low ah, based on your run time needs, you may well then be seriously over stressing the packs to deliver the amps required under high load. Thats not good. On my UK Li Ion conversions we use a 60v set up (Uses OEM cell blocks from a UK vehicle maker) with a total of 180ah (6 x 30ah).  60v also reduces the current draw and heat under load, and these stupidly high quality cells can discharge at 175a (thats a pack  max discharge of over 1000a)  each cell block, so they are really very un stressed. That means they dont get hot, that means the cells dont swell, that means long life. If you use lower capacity or lower discharge rate cells then the life can be seriously shortened. Lifepo4 are good but tend to have lower discharge rates than the Li ion, but lifepo4 just melt rather than catch fire, but also do need to be clamped as they swell more under high discharge rates.  

Batteries have what is called a "C" rating which is a value relating to the rate of discharge and charge they can cope with, so a 100ah cell with a C rate of 1 can easily discharge at 100a, if its charge rate is a max of 0.2c then it can charge at 20amps. Cheaper cells can often discharge at perhaps 3c for short times, high quality (and different chemistry some lipo etc) can stretch to 10c. The  li ion ones I use can discharge at over 5c.  Aim for a constant pack discharge rate of 400a to cope with a decent load for more than a few seconds, and you will be OK. That means if you have a 90ah pack with a 3c constant discharge rate you will be damaging the pack from the start. If you are using old ex car battery cells (or second life packs) then you should not expect them to constantly deliver the same way as they could when new. They should be de rated.  Based on discharge and longer life I would not install a pack under 150ah of any Lithium. If I did I would not expect a long and happy life. If thats OK then all is good. If you are likely to get hacked off when they fail after a couple of years usage, then it may be worth re thinking what your pack ah is to start with.

Back to lead, a 12v lead starter battery can do perhaps 8C for a few seconds, then they start to get hot, then the plates buckle then they fail. No good for a traction battery but ok to start a gas engine.  Lead traction are also not able to deliver really high long time discharge, which is why they go for a seemingly big pack in the first place, just to get a reasonable chance of being able to deliver performance under load, and have a reasonable life.  Traction batteries can however be heavily discharged which a starter cant. Leisure can also do this but cant deliver the high currents so never use these as a traction replacement.

I do reprogram the DeltaQ ic1200 (Delta Q did have a suitable algorithm for my needs) and this uses a feature of re programming the temp sensor input so it becomes a short to start option that is linked to my Pack Monitoring Unit (PMU) that talks to the OEM electronics on the cell blocks, so giving pack level safety on charge over voltage or temperature. That is really important.

You also need to reprogram the Sevcon to reflect the new discharge curve of the Lithium cells you use. If you dont it will still be able to discharge the pack to a low voltage that is below what the Li  cells can take.

I hope some of the above is of help.

 

[BuggyBoy]

Great info, thanks. 
Stupid questions time:

If the setup is for 48v, 60v is really not an issue? It’s the amperage that is more important?

Are you saying it’s actually beneficial to go to 60v?

Does the setup described above by digeredoo seem adequate as a replacement in your opinion? 
 

cheers. 

[EVSupport]

The 48v sevcon controller can work out to about 68 volts, the DC to DC can go way above 90v. The inverter is the critical device, and I reprogram that to suit the battery profile and also cut back on voltage above 67v so that allows for some regen on a full battery, but doesnt cause it to cut out fully. The voltage given out to the main contactor is controlled by the sevcon. But we cant get the original "Fuel gauge" to read  correctly so we simply add a new gauge for this.

Its an advantage also having a DeltaQ IC1200 algorithm that works with the cell blocks (it does not actually take them to their absolute max voltage , so even better ) and the Sevcon voltages.

With any EV, voltage is King, the heat given out by the power systems is important and that is a function of the square of the current so if 50amps load  the square is   2500 if 60amps the value is 3600 so you can see the seemingly  small change of 10v (or 20%) gives an increase of nearly 50% in that value.  So with a constant load that means heat output is dramatically reduced by going to a higher voltage.  Where this really helps is when the pack is going down in charge and the voltage does start to sink, and current goes up. Its not such an issue for us.

But against all of that is the issue of higher voltage and getting into the realms of being considered as a HV install, and making sure that stuff is suitably insulated , fused, labled etc

I couldnt comment on a persons specification of install, as they have obviously made an investment  decision based on a lot of factors. I have just given some guidance to help people understand the issues involved, and for many with little experience of the issues its easy to go down the wrong route for  what may seem like the right reasons (or a Youtube video) .

[didgeridoo]

BuggyBoy, I went with the 120Ah pack. I am happy with the kit so far, but I am still testing it. I will say that it is much better than the lead batteries it replaced. I am not sure if it is the weight difference, or the batteries' ability to maintain higher voltage under load that is enabling this, but it is much faster up hills (we live in Eastern Tennessee) than the old batteries. As in, you can go 20MPH, vs the 10-11MPH up hills. I have used the cart to pull a powered rake (Black boar chisel plow) to rake and grade my gravel driveway and the batteries performed fine. No excessive heat, and my driveway is uphill.

I have yet to permanently mount the charger inside the vehicle. Again, I wish I was able to download the profile for the DeltaQ IC1200 that would work with the new batteries, but the charger (Upgrade Fast Charger) that shipped with is working fine. 

The other issue, which EV Support mentioned, is that the battery dashboard "gauge" is no longer calibrated. That's fine for me, because the replacement battery pack came with a digital capacity meter, which I mounted in the dash. I should point out, it hooks into just one of the batteries, so, as you are going uphill, the meter goes way down, but recovers as you ease off the accelerator or come to a stop. To be honest, the original "gauge"  never worked until the battery was struggling, then would lose a bar on the meter.

In the future, I may opt for a high voltage setup, but I think that may be reserved for a different UTV.  I needed to  replace the aging lead-acid batteries, and this setup was as plug-and-play as I could ask for. An extra 30Ah battery is still on the table for me, which would bring me to a total of 150Ah. With the standard kit's busbar, I can add up to eight of the 48v LiFe batteries for a total of 240Ah capacity.

Best of Luck!

-Gary

[GNFO]

Been a while planning this.  I bought a used "Axis" E1, the version of the Hisun E1 that used to be sold through Lowe's.  I like it a lot and use it for hauling firewood and a log splitter around my property, but it always threw the low voltage alert under load going up hills and would slow down to a crawl or even stop if it had been used just a little.  While the Discover lead-acid batteries were probably failing anyway, I have to wonder if the OEM batteries were the wrong choice from the beginning since I don't think they are capable of much more than 100A continuous output, well below the 400A motor.

After extensive searching online for a 48V setup that would be both easy and capable of a 400A continuous output, I found the ReLion Insight 48V LiFePO batteries.  They actually have the same standardized GC2 exterior dimensions as the Discover batteries, so no adapting was necessary for the trays.  I went with their 4 battery bundle which included a digital "fuel" gauge, two dummy spacers (which I didn't need) and an offboard charger (also didn't need, but a good backup).  Their technical support was very helpful and actually sent me the zip file to update the existing Delta-Q onboard charger profile for their batteries (profile P269).

I pulled out the old batteries and connected the new batteries in parallel in the four battery positions near the centerline using new cables of the same uniform length.  I did re-use the cables for the final connection to the motor controller.  With these new batteries, they also come with CAN cables to connect all the batteries together.  That way the onboard BMS built in to each unit talks to each other, and the "fuel" gauge also connects via CAN so it gets the total picture and doesn't have the same problem mentioned above by Didgeridoo.  When it's turned on, the gauge detects how many batteries are connected and reads out a digital percentage and total remaining amp hours.  Pretty neat system.

I kept the blinking green light from the onboard charger since it still works and lets me know if the Delta-Q charger is properly providing current, but I got rid of the decal below it and installed the round digital gauge in it's place.  Turned on the batteries (they have their own on/off button if you want to isolate them), turned the key, and it all worked perfectly.  Loads of torque, no low voltage battery warning, and full advertised speed available.  Plus, the four new batteries weigh 138lb total vs 520lb for the old Discover batteries.  As mentioned before, the existing instrument cluster battery level isn't accurate, but I don't care since I now have a digital percentage to look at.  The amp output gauge does work though, since I believe that is reading from the motor controller.  Before the conversion, I couldn't get over 100A output, after the conversion I've seen it up to 300A and I haven't really pushed it yet.

The new batteries are 48V, 30ah, so I have a total capacity of 120ah right now.  Can't tell you the range under the manufacturer's flat, paved, medium speed, 2wd conditions, but I did do some distance with two people (~400lbs total) in 4wd low over bumpy and very hilly terrain.  I estimate I would have had a maximum range of about 12 miles under those tough conditions.  That seems more than enough for my purposes, but if I wanted to invest in it, I could add another four batteries for a total of 240ah.  The batteries and cables were still cool to the touch after that trip, by the way.

As expected, they're expensive (4 battery bundle is ~$5300 USD), but the setup is so much more capable now and the UTV plus batteries are still much less than the Polaris lithium version UTV - even if I did add another four batteries.

I could include pictures, but since the batteries have the same outer form, there's actually not much to see other than four empty spots.  The top hold down brackets of the inner four batteries ("H" shape) don't quite work with the buttons/lift brackets of the new batteries, but since I only had four to deal with, I just used the straight hold down brackets from the outer batteries and it works just fine and doesn't move.

[John M in Louisiana]

Hey Didg since you installed the lithium batteries have you had any trouble with error codes disabling the buggy?

I have a 2019 E1 and now I'm am lucky to make it back to camp at our hunting lease (<2miles) and am looking to upgrade somehow. 

I know when I had a parking brake issue the error code disabled the buggy... 

[GNFO]

John M - I know you just addressed Didgeridoo, but FYI I haven't had any error codes since I swapped out my batteries for the lithium replacements.

[didgeridoo]

John- I have not had any error codes since upgrading to Lithium. Well, not true- we live on the top of a hill, and if the battery is fully charged, I will sometimes get the "overcharged" code by the time I make it to the bottom of driveway. Have to cycle the buggy off/on again.

I did use the charger that the battery manufacturer included, and removed the Delta IQ charger. I wish I could reuse the charger, as it is a quality unit. Since I changed the charger, I moved the 110v inlet charge cable to the molded-in gas cap area- no more having to open the glovebox to charge.

Still extremely happy with the upgrade. Winter performance could be better, but UTV is left outside in the elements, so I can't ding it for that. I have no current plans on increasing storage by adding more battery packs. I can run around my neighborhood and woods all day with elevation changes of 800 feet from mailbox to neighbors' place, and not feel any drop in voltage. The UTV feels like it has the right balance of weight and range with the 120AH packs. Wife wishes it had more gusto, but she is a lead-foot! (It would take a new motor and some high voltage setup to make her happy!) 

I've still had no maintenance other than adjusting the parking brake tension every now and then, changing the brake fluid, and lubricating all the grease joints. Brake pads are still within reason, because I rely on regenerative braking on downhills (tho, wife runs it full throttle downhill, go figure!) Switched out the scratched and yellowed windshield this week, too. 

Hope this helps!

-Gary

 

[BuggyBoy]

I'm taking to a a supplier who has a single unit that outputs 51.5v and 105ah (https://lithiumgolf.com.au/products/amplus-series-51-2v105ah) for around $3500. 

There is also a 150ah version available.  For these units they claim up to 500ah max discharge for 10 seconds, but i would probably need 250-300ah for 60 seconds to get up the hill to our house. I'm still struggling to get my head around one large Lithium being able to replace x8 AGM's, but is this possible? I know there will be an almost 200kg (around 450lbs) weight saving which is very substantial, but can this battery really have the same output as x8 260ah batteries? 

 

[GNFO]

On 3/7/2024 at 8:46 PM, BuggyBoy said:

I'm taking to a a supplier who has a single unit that outputs 51.5v and 105ah (https://lithiumgolf.com.au/products/amplus-series-51-2v105ah) for around $3500. 

There is also a 150ah version available.  For these units they claim up to 500ah max discharge for 10 seconds, but i would probably need 250-300ah for 60 seconds to get up the hill to our house. I'm still struggling to get my head around one large Lithium being able to replace x8 AGM's, but is this possible? I know there will be an almost 200kg (around 450lbs) weight saving which is very substantial, but can this battery really have the same output as x8 260ah batteries? 

 

That link doesn't show the full technical specs of the battery, so I can't tell.  In particular, I would want to know the dimensions to see how much you would have to modify the trays (and vertical space), and for output what is the max continuous output (amps, not amp-hours like you wrote).  Together, the Discover dry cells supposedly only put out 100a continuous but they do have a combined capacity ah rating of 170-200ah.  I went with the ReLion Insight 48V batteries because they individually have 100a max continuous output rating, and with four of them in parallel I get to the 400a max of the motor.  In theory I could have replaced all 8 of the dry cells with a single battery in the same form factor of the Discover batteries, but that would have only given me 30ah of capacity.  Using four gets me up to 120ah and 400a continuous output.  To answer your direct question, yes a single lithium battery could replace the 8 dry cell batteries, but you also have to look at continuous output (amps) and storage (amp-hours).

[HiSUNFarmboy]

GNFO... excellent work finding a decent replacement. do you have a 1 year later review of the ReLion Insight? 

BuggyBoy there is at least two suppliers of ReLion Insight in Australia, They seem a better solution vs Lithium Golf amplus. 

I plan to mull over the purchase for the next few weeks before I fork out the money for the upgrade. My discovery batteries must be over 4 years old and I work them hard everyday, a great testament to the quality due to being far undersized for the E1, as my E1 always crawled up my steep driveway and other hills. Only the last two or so years it fails to climb my steepest hill.  

[Jamie Wilson]

Wanted to give my info here so its documented and others know. I have had issues since day one with my Discover batteries on my Sector E1. The issue was the dealer i purchased it from was 3 hours away and both them and Hisun said i would need to bring it back to figure it out. after 3 years almost I was so tired of the low voltage errors "45C3" that i decided to replace the batteries. It was so much money and so many different stories/opinions I wasn't sure what direction to go. Last min i found Litime.com they had 51.2v 30Ah Lithium batteries. I reached out and they said they would be a direct replacement for the Discover batteries. So I ordered them. They emailed me back and as I found on the interwebs - contradicting information they said "These will not work, please deny the shipment or use for another project. The HP of your UTV is too much". Well I didn't listen and i accepted the shipment. Yesterday i took out my 8 Discover and replaced them with 4 51.2v 30Ah LiTime batteries. I installed them in parallel, I did a algorithm update on the Delta iQ 1200 using profile 233 (Closest settings to the LiTime Battery). and BOOM! it worked, and it worked like NEVER before! its so fast, two grown adults up the hill and hardly any drop, but best part at 50% charge it was showing ZERO errors. I would estimate the cart is about 2" taller now too b/c of the battery weight removed. I will update in a few weeks how they are doing. but as of now i would totally recommend and they were like $499 a battery b/c they have a sale currently taking 100 off each battery. 

[GNFO]

On 5/14/2024 at 3:01 AM, HiSUNFarmboy said:

GNFO... excellent work finding a decent replacement. do you have a 1 year later review of the ReLion Insight? 

BuggyBoy there is at least two suppliers of ReLion Insight in Australia, They seem a better solution vs Lithium Golf amplus. 

I plan to mull over the purchase for the next few weeks before I fork out the money for the upgrade. My discovery batteries must be over 4 years old and I work them hard everyday, a great testament to the quality due to being far undersized for the E1, as my E1 always crawled up my steep driveway and other hills. Only the last two or so years it fails to climb my steepest hill.  

HiSUNFarmboy - It sounds like you actually had better luck with your Discover batteries than me. I never had good performance up slopes with mine and within a couple years I didn't even dare try going up a slope with a load, which is why I took the plunge for the conversion.  I continue to be perfectly happy with the ReLion batteries.  I'm sure I don't use mine as much as it sounds like you do, but every time I take it out to crawl around the steep wooded slopes on our 5.5 acres it's been flawless, and on many occasions I've loaded up the bed with split firewood and towed a 5 foot cart also filled with firewood with no appreciable effect on performance.  Pretty much all my use is in 4WD Low, but I have been able to hit the 25mph speed limiter on flat asphalt with two people.  It can't keep 25mph up a steep slope with two people, but I suspect that's more of a HiSUN issue than the batteries.  I especially appreciated that ReLion was able to answer my questions and send me the files to flash the existing onboard charger for their profile.  If you go with them, do get their "fuel" gauge, which interfaces with all the batteries through the CANBus (the percentage and amp hours remaining are nice to see), and the remote cable to turn them off/on is a nice to have only because the batteries will eventually turn themselves off if they sit unused for a few days without being plugged in.  Of course, if you use it and plug it in every day then it doesn't really matter.  Also, four is the minimum I would go with to make best use of the maximum current draw of the UTV motor.  If you need more range than I do, you can always add more batteries later (up to 4 more), but since they're fairly expensive I didn't want to pay for more capacity than I needed.

I don't know how cold it gets where you are, but if you park your UTV outside all the time just keep in mind that all Lithium batteries have a problem charging below freezing unless there is a supplemental pack heater like EV cars have.  I believe the ReLion onboard BMS will stop charging to prevent damage, but it's better if it can be inside a garage and just left plugged in.  I think they were working on a version with internal heaters too, but at the time I was looking they didn't have a 48V version yet.

[GNFO]

14 minutes ago, Jamie Wilson said:

Wanted to give my info here so its documented and others know. I have had issues since day one with my Discover batteries on my Sector E1. The issue was the dealer i purchased it from was 3 hours away and both them and Hisun said i would need to bring it back to figure it out. after 3 years almost I was so tired of the low voltage errors "45C3" that i decided to replace the batteries. It was so much money and so many different stories/opinions I wasn't sure what direction to go. Last min i found Litime.com they had 51.2v 30Ah Lithium batteries. I reached out and they said they would be a direct replacement for the Discover batteries. So I ordered them. They emailed me back and as I found on the interwebs - contradicting information they said "These will not work, please deny the shipment or use for another project. The HP of your UTV is too much". Well I didn't listen and i accepted the shipment. Yesterday i took out my 8 Discover and replaced them with 4 51.2v 30Ah LiTime batteries. I did them in a series, I did a algorithm update on the Delta iQ 1200 using profile 233 (Closest settings to the LiTime Battery). and BOOM! it worked, and it worked like NEVER before! its so fast, two grown adults up the hill and hardly any drop, but best part at 50% charge it was showing ZERO errors. I would estimate the cart is about 2" taller now too b/c of the battery weight removed. I will update in a few weeks how they are doing. but as of now i would totally recommend and they were like $499 a battery b/c they have a sale currently taking 100 off each battery. 

Jamie - I'm glad you're happy with your solution, but quick question:  You said you wired the four 51.2V batteries in series.  That would result in 30Ah of capacity at 204.8V.  They should be wired in parallel for the 48V HiSUN system.  Are you sure about how you wired them?  The Discover batteries were wired in series because each of them are only 6V, so 6V x 8 = 48V.

[Jamie Wilson]

34 minutes ago, GNFO said:

Jamie - I'm glad you're happy with your solution, but quick question:  You said you wired the four 51.2V batteries in series.  That would result in 30Ah of capacity at 204.8V.  They should be wired in parallel for the 48V HiSUN system.  Are you sure about how you wired them?  The Discover batteries were wired in series because each of them are only 6V, so 6V x 8 = 48V.

Im An IDIOT lol i meant Parallel!!!! LOL New to this! and was just too excited it worked!

[GNFO]

🙂  No worries.  I figured you must have done it properly since you didn't fry your charger or motor controller.  Just didn't want someone else to go down the wrong path!

Looking at Litime now, I believe I did look at them before, but at the time they didn't have a 48V-class GC2 form factor battery.  I believe the ones you have are rated at 80A continuous output, which should give you 320A continuous for the 400A rated motor.  Maybe somewhat more since I think I read somewhere that the motor controller can utilize the slightly higher voltage, but I'm too lazy to do the math right now.  The ReLion batteries I used are rated at 100A continuous each, which is one of the reasons I picked them, but I think the moments where the motor controller actually pushes 400A to the motor are pretty rare and certainly compared to the Discover cells, 320A is like night and day.

[Jamie Wilson]

The ones I have are 100A also. I’ll report back in a few weeks/months to give an update. 

[LaughlinLS]

Ok I need some help.  I purchased the LiTime 48v (51,2V) GC230Ah batteries mentioned above and charged them up.   I reprogrammed the onboard charger to the 233 profile and have reconnected the batteries in parallel.   However I am getting no power at all.  Which batteries did you connect the additional ground wire and power wire that were connected to the original dry cells?  The positive cable to the UTV is connected to a positive post on the last or first battery in the sequence.  The black negative I was asking is connected to the opposite end of the battery series.    So again I have all the cables connected neg to neg and pos to pos.   Not sure what I have done wrong here.  Thanks for any insights

[GNFO]

16 hours ago, LaughlinLS said:

Ok I need some help.  I purchased the LiTime 48v (51,2V) GC230Ah batteries mentioned above and charged them up.   I reprogrammed the onboard charger to the 233 profile and have reconnected the batteries in parallel.   However I am getting no power at all.  Which batteries did you connect the additional ground wire and power wire that were connected to the original dry cells?  The positive cable to the UTV is connected to a positive post on the last or first battery in the sequence.  The black negative I was asking is connected to the opposite end of the battery series.    So again I have all the cables connected neg to neg and pos to pos.   Not sure what I have done wrong here.  Thanks for any insights

Obviously a little hard to troubleshoot without seeing what you have set up, but regarding the additional wires, since each battery is in the 48V class it doesn't matter which battery you connect them to as long as you keep the + and - straight like before.  Just guessing, but if you don't have them connected right now you may not be getting power due to a controller power issue.  Other than that all I can offer is to recheck the connections and make sure the 12v battery is still good.

[Jamie Wilson]

when you plug in the charger does it start charging? Just thinking this could help you know if you have something not connected correctly. So mine did this same thing. I had started with the swap b/c my dry cells which were always an issue, would no longer charge they were giving an error. turns out the inline fuse was blown. When i get home i will take a picture of my wiring so you can see if you missed anything. there is a spare ground and positive wire in the mix that is needed for the cart to come online.

[mark walkom]

another aussie with an e1 looking to change the batteries! this thread is tops, so thanks to everyone who's shared details

looks like litime will be decent and reasonably easy to get (ebay or direct from them). the relion are only available at rj batteries, and they don't publish prices online which is pretty crappy

 

also I posted about my experience a few years ago if anyone is interested -   

 

[HiSUNFarmboy]

I'm so emotional right now. I was already to conced my fight with the old batteries and purchase the Relion 48v insight, they have been recalled in my country.

https://www.productsafety.gov.au/recalls/navico-australia-pty-ltd-—-relion-insight-48v-lithium-ion-batteries-used-in-various-vehicles

 

Now to research Litime...

[GNFO]

12 hours ago, HiSUNFarmboy said:

I'm so emotional right now. I was already to conced my fight with the old batteries and purchase the Relion 48v insight, they have been recalled in my country.

https://www.productsafety.gov.au/recalls/navico-australia-pty-ltd-—-relion-insight-48v-lithium-ion-batteries-used-in-various-vehicles

 

Now to research Litime...

HISUNFarmboy, that recall is from a year ago.  I actually discovered it just weeks after I had installed my RELiON batteries and my serial numbers were in the group. I was quite mad at the time, but as it turns out, they had already fixed the problem and the serial numbers on the stickers on the batteries have an "S" or an "M" after them to show they have been modified. That explained why they had been unavailable for a few months before I could order them in Feb '23.  They had already been fixing the problem before the recall came out.  By the way, the additional serial number stickers they provided with the literature (I'm assuming for fleet owners) didn't have those letters, you had to look at the actual stickers on the battery. Even if I had been affected, they would have paid for shipping and modification. I was just upset at the potential time loss and timing, but as I said they had already fixed the problem.

Bottom line: that recall isn't a problem for you unless for some reason the local Aussie dealer keeps old inventory and never took care of having RELiON modify their stock. Here in the U.S. I was buying them straight from the company. Go with whichever brand you want and don't let the recall stop you. Given your location, I suspect the LiTime batteries are cheaper. The RELiONs have some additional features like the on/off switch, 10 year warranty, CAN Bus connections between batteries so the BMS can interface with each other, and the "fuel" gauge that talks to all connected batteries through the bus, but they are definitely more expensive. At the time I bought them, RELiON was the only GC2 form factor option with 100A continuous output per battery capability and has been very responsive, but their management and engineering are based out of the U.S.  I believe LiTime is based out of China, which may work to your advantage.

[mark walkom]

in au the relion are being replaced with allion, at least according my local RJ batteries shop

 

I am keen to look at the litime, but finding a local 48v is proving a bit hard. 12v at 50ah can be picked up on eBay for well under $300 each though

[GNFO]

1 hour ago, mark walkom said:

in au the relion are being replaced with allion, at least according my local RJ batteries shop

 

I am keen to look at the litime, but finding a local 48v is proving a bit hard. 12v at 50ah can be picked up on eBay for well under $300 each though

If that's the case, then the LiTime seem good. Do they have free shipping there?Both manufacturers have free shipping in the U.S. I started out looking at cheaper lower voltage batteries, but the problem is when you wire in series you can't go higher than the ah capacity and max continuous rating of each and they don't add to each other. That makes it difficult to make use of the full 400A rating of the motor. That's why I never understood why the old Discover cells were considered OK, since their max continuous output was only 100A. Guess they were depending on the time limited higher current output.

[HiSUNFarmboy]

16 hours ago, mark walkom said:

in au the relion are being replaced with allion, at least according my local RJ batteries shop

 

I am keen to look at the litime, but finding a local 48v is proving a bit hard. 12v at 50ah can be picked up on eBay for well under $300 each though

Please keep me updated as I almost gave up. It's raining today however, so I'll give it another crack.

Thanks for your input again GNFO, I was still happy to Relion the batteries but nobody wants to touch them.

Maybe if there is enough of us we could import ourselves some decent batteries.

[GNFO]

15 hours ago, HiSUNFarmboy said:

Please keep me updated as I almost gave up. It's raining today however, so I'll give it another crack.

Thanks for your input again GNFO, I was still happy to Relion the batteries but nobody wants to touch them.

Maybe if there is enough of us we could import ourselves some decent batteries.

I'm not sure why it is, but the LiTime website for Australia doesn't show any 48V models, but they do have free online shipping (I guess assuming the stock is in the Australian warehouse).  In fact, the selection for Australia is just a fraction of the same company offerings in North America.  Sorry if that's a normal occurrence there, but it might be worth reaching out to them to see if you can order the 48V GC2 form factor model from them directly.  Maybe they can throw it on their next inventory shipment to Australia.